Robert: Obviously, there's been a demand for that, but now we're at a point where they're contracting out and building the real thing. There's going to be a real Disneyland in Shanghai. Chinese are contracting with companies such as Thinkwell, who know how to build a real Western theme park. How do you see this trend playing out?
Dave: I think the demand for a real, quality, Disney-style theme park is no different that the burgeoning demand there for luxury goods: the real Prada bag and not the fake Prada bag. Knock-off culture is what it is there. It's the elephant in the middle of the room in a lot of ways. But that's changing because you have two or three generations of people who have been educated overseas. They're understand why those extra steps in creating technology, or entertainment, or goods, or services, make for a better product and will make your audience fall in love with it.
Like you said, the Tumblr blogs show us these scary Small World clones. I've ridden them, and they are creepy as hell. But that's because they copied just what the saw and not necessarily what they felt. At least that's my own B.S., psychological evaluation of that. I went on one of those Small World rides. It was trying to be Small World. It had all the blocky graphics, sort of like Mary Blair, or I always like to switch the first letter of someone's name when it's the knock-off, so it's Barry Mlair.
At the end of the ride, I look up in the sky above all the singing dolls and there's this sort-of starburst pattern on a little logo and I squint and look at it said "Mattel" on it. And I went, why is there a Mattel logo? Then I realized it's because Mattel used to sponsor the one here [at Disneyland in Anaheim]. So they had just taken a picture of the set and copied everything, not knowing what the context of that meant.
This is just cultural misappropriation, misunderstanding. They're trying really hard to get the same feeling, when the feeling of that ride isn't just the way it looks. It's many other things, too. That's an education for them, as it's an education for us to learn how to adapt to Chinese culture and audience.
Another one I saw was a park in Beijing where they'd obviously went to Islands of Adventure. There was one area of the park where right next to each other was the facade for The Cat in the Hat dark ride, the giant arm from the collapsed Poseidon statue, and a row of sets from Port of Entry. I mean, I was working there [at Islands of Adventure] at the time when all of that was being built, so I saw it come out of the ground. I have a photographic memory of that park. So I walked in and I went, "Wow, this is deja vu." They literally took a picture and said "We want that." But the seams of where they went together were not there. And that's the kind of thing that we can help them with.
Hong Kong Disneyland had an impact there, but there's a bit of dissonance when we deal with mainland China clients. They see [Hong Kong] as a different audience. That's changing, but I think a lot of our clients reacted that way because [Hong Kong Disneyland] initially was seen not as a success. But we all know that Disney's just going to turn on the money hose until it works. So now it's working, and very well. Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Manor are two of the best things they've done in the world in a long time. That Mystic Manor ride, I can't wait.
Robert: And what's interesting about Mystic Manor, that final, climatic scene...
Dave: ...It's Monkey King!
The thing people need to know is that Monkey King isn't some licensed character. It started as oral tradition, told between families, and then it was written down and now it's what they call one of the five greatest books in Chinese literature. Then it turned into operas, and stage plays, and animated series, and comic books, and toys. There's a version for it with a very famous Chinese actor that was made for television in the 70s, and that's the one that the current generation of adults, like our age, know and absolutely love. We got it on DVD when we were over there and watched it and it's so charmingly funny. The Gen Xers will know what I'm talking about -- it looked like a Sid and Marty Krofft show, with slightly cheesy costumes and goofy special effects. It was like Sigmund and the Sea Monsters, or Wonderbug, or any of those things. Seeing that really helped me understand that this isn't some creaky old novel. This is something that every generation reinvented.
There was that great HD video of Mystic Manor that hit the day after the ride opened… by the way Internet, I love you. Theme park nerds out there, first know that we're one of you, and we love all of you. We travel a lot for work, but I can't get out there and see everything. But when something opens, all I have to do is go to Google. The day after it opened, there was this gorgeous first-person video that showed everything. So thank you for that, whoever you were.
Then it got to that last scene, and I'm like, "Holy crap, it's the Monkey King!" He's being used as a cultural touchstone. If the story of this ride is that all of statuary and objects come to life and reveal their magical properties, well, he's a trickster. Of course, he's going to screw things up at the end. It's a brilliant little get for them. And it's a perfect example of why you can't necessarily do the Haunted Mansion in a Chinese park. Ghosts are not the same. In most Asian cultures, ghosts are different, but in China ghosts are very, very different. It's usually about magic, and whether or not that magic is good or bad. It's more about demons and elemental spirits than it is about the ghosts of dead people.
So you go through Haunted Mansion [as a Chinese visitor] and it doesn't quite read. People don't understand the idea of your friends and family, or strangers, people in the graveyard singing at you. We have an affinity for that because we've been told that old New England-style houses and graveyards are creepy places. That has no cultural relevance at all [in China]. It doesn't push any buttons.
I thought that ride in particular was a brilliant retelling of the tenets of the Haunted Mansion but as something entirely different. And also, it starts with a monkey, too. The whole mischievous monkey idea, it's great. Monkeys are celebrated as tricksters in the culture, and sort of adored as cute things.
Robert: As you were talking about all these knock-off parks that copied the form, but totally missed the function. Here's something that got the function of the Haunted Mansion [as a spirit-driven magic show], but it's in a completely different form.
Dave: Now [clients in China] see that Disney's going to make this work, they're going to adapt to the audience, not the other way around. Shanghai is a perfect example of that. From what little I've seen, it has only the most tenuous connection to the physic design of Magic Kingdoms we know. It shares a lot of the philosophies, but it's expressing them in a completely different way.
For more of our interview with Dave Cobb, including the challenges of designing for a multi-generational audience, the damage of the Coaster Wars, and the power of letting your audience be part of the show, download Episode 4 of Theme Park Insider podcast on iTunes.
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