Blindfolded Chi Sau

[WCgreg]

Recently I saw some students from my school do blindfolded chi sau with the instructor to earn their black belts, i know not everyone agrees with a grading system in wing chun but I just wondered if anyone else had seen something similar at their schools and whether there are merits to this.

I personally think blindfolded chi sau is great in training reflexes without needing your eyes, it was really fantastic to watch too!

[Vajramusti]

Recently I saw some students from my school do blindfolded chi sau with the instructor to earn their black belts, i know not everyone agrees with a grading system in wing chun but I just wondered if anyone else had seen something similar at their schools and whether there are merits to this.

I personally think blindfolded chi sau is great in training reflexes without needing your eyes, it was really fantastic to watch too!

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blindfolded chi sau for earning blackbelts!! Good grief! Quo vadis?

[wingchunIan]

we don't have belts, but we frequently do blindfold chi sau amongst higher level students. Personally I love it, for me it's a great way of training sensitivity by removing sight from the equation.

[ShaolinDan]

Never done blindfolded chi sao, but we will practice chin na blind. It's a neat experience, I have found it surprising how easy it is...the hands can give a lot of information.

[Lee Chiang Po]

It seems the goal of training Wing Chun is to be able to do chi sao. It is nothing more than a drill where two men can practice their hand weapons and such. Doing it blindfolded is not really a test of your fighting skills, so why do it? Way too much emphisis is placed on chi sao. I can see having some way to measure your skills for a belt ranking if you need one, but chi sao should not be a serious requirement for said rankings.
You might be pretty good at playing chi sao in a blindfold, but try wearing it in a fight and you will see why it is a waste of time.

[wingchunIan]

It seems the goal of training Wing Chun is to be able to do chi sao. It is nothing more than a drill where two men can practice their hand weapons and such. Doing it blindfolded is not really a test of your fighting skills, so why do it? Way too much emphisis is placed on chi sao. I can see having some way to measure your skills for a belt ranking if you need one, but chi sao should not be a serious requirement for said rankings.
You might be pretty good at playing chi sao in a blindfold, but try wearing it in a fight and you will see why it is a waste of time.

Hmmm, a bit of a confused post, you begin by declaring chi sau is only a drill but then draw a parallel to fighting. From your post you don't appear to have tried blind fold chi sau. You are correct that chi sau is a training exercise (note not a drill as drilling implies the same thing over and over and no two chi sau sessions are ever the same) and like all exercises as a student progresses the parameters need to be changed and different nuances introduced. Blind fold chi sau is a way of changing the dynamic of the exercise forcing the practitioner to focus on the messages being received from any bridge / lack thereof. Anybody who thinks blindfold chi sau and blind fold fighting are even remotely close to the same thing is clearly raving mad but I don't see anywhere in this thread that that has been suggested. There are many, many ways of training and developing wing chun fighting attributes, some are common across all lineages and others are unique to one or two. IMHO the healthiest approach is to try them and see if they add any value to you rather than simply shooting them down and dismissing them because you don't do it.

[mjw]

I think blindfolded chi sao is good overall but the bad part is people turn their heads while doing it which screws up their structure a little bit.....

[Phil Redmond]

I think blindfolded chi sao is good overall but the bad part is people turn their heads while doing it which screws up their structure a little bit.....

Exactly. Some people even do it during regular chi sao. I guess people are trying to show how cool they are.....lol. I learned not to turn my head from a few Sifus including Sifus Duncan Leung and William Cheung. You should be focused on your training partner and not looking around as if you're da' man....

[mjw]

Exactly. Some people even do it during regular chi sao. I guess people are trying to show how cool they are.....lol. I learned not to turn my head from a few Sifus including Sifus Duncan Leung and William Cheung. You should be focused on your training partner and not looking around as if you're da' man....

I think it comes off of people wanting to watch themselves in mirrors and sifus do it while teaching but if you watch they usually don't do this while just practicing but somehow people see it and do it.....

Then there is just something about blind folded chi say that really makes this come out perhaps lack of something to focus on or whatever it may be.....

[Phil Redmond]

I think it comes off of people wanting to watch themselves in mirrors and sifus do it while teaching but if you watch they usually don't do this while just practicing but somehow people see it and do it.....

Then there is just something about blind folded chi say that really makes this come out perhaps lack of something to focus on or whatever it may be.....

True to some extent. But trust me, I've been around the block at least twice and I've seen many people trying to look cool thinking they don't need to look at you to hit you. I personally think it's disrespectful to your partner.

[Yoshiyahu]

I personally love blind fold chi sau...it develops alot of key elements that transition to your fighting...

Chi Sau is akin to lifting weights, shadow boxing and or running.

You dont actually life weights, shadow box or run ten miles in a fight. But you do take the skills gain into a fight with you.

Chi Sau builds skills that you take with you into a fight...Same as hitting a punching bag!

[anerlich]

Not disagreeing with adopting the correct attitudinal aspect, but looking directly at your partner can, according to some, actually hinder your performance.

A direct gaze tends to engage the emotions and promote self-defeating internal dialogue. Peripheral vision is better for pre-conscious reaction.

I find I tend to direct the gaze away from the face, not to show how cool I am, but to concentrate more fully on the connection through the sense of touch.

Blindfolded (or eyes closed, IMO the blindfold is only necessary to add a sense of drama for onlookers) practice is hardly unique to WC, or KF. Wrestlers and BJJ guys do it as well.

[nasmedicine]

Not disagreeing with adopting the correct attitudinal aspect, but looking directly at your partner can, according to some, actually hinder your performance.

A direct gaze tends to engage the emotions and promote self-defeating internal dialogue. Peripheral vision is better for pre-conscious reaction.

I find I tend to direct the gaze away from the face, not to show how cool I am, but to concentrate more fully on the connection through the sense of touch.

Blindfolded (or eyes closed, IMO the blindfold is only necessary to add a sense of drama for onlookers) practice is hardly unique to WC, or KF. Wrestlers and BJJ guys do it as well.

Good post and I agree.

[JPinAZ]

Hmmm, a bit of a confused post, you begin by declaring chi sau is only a drill but then draw a parallel to fighting. From your post you don't appear to have tried blind fold chi sau. You are correct that chi sau is a training exercise (note not a drill as drilling implies the same thing over and over and no two chi sau sessions are ever the same) and like all exercises as a student progresses the parameters need to be changed and different nuances introduced. Blind fold chi sau is a way of changing the dynamic of the exercise forcing the practitioner to focus on the messages being received from any bridge / lack thereof. Anybody who thinks blindfold chi sau and blind fold fighting are even remotely close to the same thing is clearly raving mad but I don't see anywhere in this thread that that has been suggested. There are many, many ways of training and developing wing chun fighting attributes, some are common across all lineages and others are unique to one or two. IMHO the healthiest approach is to try them and see if they add any value to you rather than simply shooting them down and dismissing them because you don't do it.

Quite the opposide - LCP's post was pretty clear, and I agree with him. Too many times, it seems WC's end goal is to be good at chi sau, when it should be about fighting and protecting yourself (since no fight I've been in or seen has ever looked like chi sau).
Doing blind folded chi sau is not really a way to test/determine someone's fighting skills. IMO, if people are going to be testing kung fu ranks/levels, fighting skills are something that should be tested for at every step - especially a 'black belt/sash'. Chi Sau as it's typically done doesn't test for this.

Can blindfolded bridging be fun? sure. Is it something that can represent skill in fighting/defending yourself? probably not, or very little. So I agree with Lee's post and ask, what place does this have in a blacksash test? And, since I stopped formal testing after my first 2 years of training, maybe I'm a bit lost, but I thought a blacksash would determine ones understanding and skills for fights, not if they can play a game (chi sau) blindfolded.

[Phil Redmond]

Not disagreeing with adopting the correct attitudinal aspect, but looking directly at your partner can, according to some, actually hinder your performance.

A direct gaze tends to engage the emotions and promote self-defeating internal dialogue. Peripheral vision is better for pre-conscious reaction.

I find I tend to direct the gaze away from the face, not to show how cool I am, but to concentrate more fully on the connection through the sense of touch.

Blindfolded (or eyes closed, IMO the blindfold is only necessary to add a sense of drama for onlookers) practice is hardly unique to WC, or KF. Wrestlers and BJJ guys do it as well.

I teach to focus on the elbows to train my eyes for strikes to my upper and middle gates.