Sparring clips

[Fa Xing]

I don't much care for sparring drills per say, they tend to crate some bad habits BUT they CAN serve a purpose of introducing people to hard contact sparring.
The more freestyle sparring at the end was good.

I like sparring drills simply for the reason that you can isolate a specific tool or combination, or even just work a specific principle. However, you can't rely on it completely, you also need free sparring.

imho, I've sparred some boxers, and if it's one thing they need is a bit more sparring drills...but that's just my thought on the matter.

[Alan Orr]

Oh I agree, you do gotta start somewhere and what I liked in those clips was that the "attacker" was NOT attacking with "WC" but was attacking with more "kickboxing" like moves.

Yes that's a good point. The only problem is that normal kickboxers are a lot better. So would need a step up to really grow.

[Alan Orr]

Agreed. But it still has our tactical approach coupled with visible use of pak, jut, striking with lat sao chit chung guidance....

What sean said about headgear, ditto.

But overall we can see vt fighting methods, all good.

Yes, I can see what the aim is. We use sparring drills and do apply all our wing chun principles in drills and sparring etc.

The only down side to the clip is some of the guys had a very open defence as they attack the centre to much - only my opinion. In sparring with boxers and kickboxers you will get hammered doing that. You need to have a tight defence in mind. What I mean is if you always use lat sao chit chung then your game is easy to read. Controlling of the centre is not just basic centre line.

[k gledhill]

Yes, I can see what the aim is. We use sparring drills and do apply all our wing chun principles in drills and sparring etc.

The only down side to the clip is some of the guys had a very open defence as they attack the centre to much - only my opinion. In sparring with boxers and kickboxers you will get hammered doing that. You need to have a tight defence in mind. What I mean is if you always use lat sao chit chung then your game is easy to read. Controlling of the centre is not just basic centre line.

What is lat sao chit chung to you? There is a lot of inter school terminology issues.

[Sean66]

Alan,

Once again you're right on. Attacking down the center blindly is something I totally discourage, and I'm doing my best to drill that out of my guys.
Luckily, I have students who are also decent boxers (you can see one of 'em in the clip), and they will blast you it's true if you don't manage to use your angles properly and have your wu sau where it should be to protect your head.

In all honesty my guys are amateurs. I'm gonna try to take them to an amateur open martial arts competition in Germany in Mai (Delta Cup), but I have no illusions about being able to train someone for the octagon or some other mma venue....I just don't have the requisite experience in ground fighting.

[Jansingsang]

Hey Alan,

You're exactly right. Sparring with the gloves and headgear, although good for your face, does not give you the real feeling for distance when you're not using them. People tend to rush in for the kill without sometimes making sure of their (protected) position.

This is why we do this type of sparring occasionally, and then spar without gloves and headgear (but with mouth guard). But sparring without the gear is most of the time with less power....remember, sparring is not fighting.

Great stuff Sean. Agreed Sparring with Headgear etc changes the whole dimensions for my given experience. The Student becomes more anxious and scared, in some cases ...lol head geared and gloved up.


And yes its harder to judge distance in real time. Just as we learn to Chi sau the same most go for Sparring ..And when errors show up its back to Chi sau drilling & form reflection

What your showing here is the building blocks to learning how to apply the Concepts and principles outside the Chi sau Bubble ..Which is the levels that's rarely seen in Vingtsun kung fu these days. And needs to be addressed so the Martial arts world would sit up and say Vingtsun Kungfu is Real dangerous S%*t Respect !

[Alan Orr]

Alan,

Once again you're right on. Attacking down the center blindly is something I totally discourage, and I'm doing my best to drill that out of my guys.
Luckily, I have students who are also decent boxers (you can see one of 'em in the clip), and they will blast you it's true if you don't manage to use your angles properly and have your wu sau where it should be to protect your head.

In all honesty my guys are amateurs. I'm gonna try to take them to an amateur open martial arts competition in Germany in Mai (Delta Cup), but I have no illusions about being able to train someone for the octagon or some other mma venue....I just don't have the requisite experience in ground fighting.

Good points. Good luck with the training and development.

I will be holding a Chi Sao event in London next year. You should try to bring your group.

best Alan

[Phil Redmond]

What is lat sao chit chung to you? There is a lot of inter school terminology issues.

So true. Though most of our terms are the same there are some that other WC people don't use. I've been doing WC four a couple of years and I see terms I've never used. Just like we have terms that others don't use. I'll start a WC terminology thread if there hasn't been one already.

[Alan Orr]

What is lat sao chit chung to you? There is a lot of inter school terminology issues.

Yes true. I know a few school are hot on froward attacking pressure of the facing centre line when the line is open. But sometimes an open line is not always the best line to attack as the opponent may know its open or maybe ready for that - also as say the opponent made trade punches with you.

I look at control of centre not just centre line. Which mean pressuring the opponents structure ( Balance, position, weight, and so on). Then they can not return fire with power or control - then I can hit at will, when I want.

This maybe the reason when you watch my chi sau it looks like a lack of elbow of centre line attack - its a different take on control. Also as its chi sao we play for balance control and beating the opponent next move like in chess. We can always go hard and fast but you don't in my opinion learn too much from that after a while. Navy seals - slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

As I said before different system - different ideas on what is important.

[WC1277]

Yes true. I know a few school are hot on froward attacking pressure of the facing centre line when the line is open. But sometimes an open line is not always the best line to attack as the opponent may know its open or maybe ready for that - also as say the opponent made trade punches with you.

I look at control of centre not just centre line. Which mean pressuring the opponents structure ( Balance, position, weight, and so on). Then they can not return fire with power or control - then I can hit at will, when I want.

This maybe the reason when you watch my chi sau it looks like a lack of elbow of centre line attack - its a different take on control. Also as its chi sao we play for balance control and beating the opponent next move like in chess. We can always go hard and fast but you don't in my opinion learn too much from that after a while. Navy seals - slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

As I said before different system - different ideas on what is important.

Good principle, make the opponent "lean on your wall". We look at it similarly.

[Alan Orr]

Good principle, make the opponent "lean on your wall". We look at it similarly.

You got it. Close range body power.

[k gledhill]

Yes true. I know a few school are hot on froward attacking pressure of the facing centre line when the line is open. But sometimes an open line is not always the best line to attack as the opponent may know its open or maybe ready for that - also as say the opponent made trade punches with you.

I look at control of centre not just centre line. Which mean pressuring the opponents structure ( Balance, position, weight, and so on). Then they can not return fire with power or control - then I can hit at will, when I want.

This maybe the reason when you watch my chi sau it looks like a lack of elbow of centre line attack - its a different take on control. Also as its chi sao we play for balance control and beating the opponent next move like in chess. We can always go hard and fast but you don't in my opinion learn too much from that after a while. Navy seals - slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

As I said before different system - different ideas on what is important.

Agreed , we avoid this 'center mess' with tactical ideas that basically prevent the guy from ever getting good 'face' on us using movement, angling, relative to 'lines of force' they use to strike at us. Subtle stuff.
LSCC is a huge part of our repertoire.

[Robinhood]

Sean did a nice remix and added more sparring, enjoy ! still looks like VT to me

REMIX CLIP

Is that a Leng Ting lineage ?

[k gledhill]

Is that a Leng Ting lineage ?

No, its WSL "PB" VT

[Alan Orr]

Agreed , we avoid this 'center mess' with tactical ideas that basically prevent the guy from ever getting good 'face' on us using movement, angling, relative to 'lines of force' they use to strike at us. Subtle stuff.

That's is hard to do with an opponent that's not playing the game. It work better with wing chun guys doing the same thing, but not so well with tough mma guys. Not a slight on you, just as I train with mma fighters - I can say it with experience. The body centre control is subtle ie its a high skill, but its often the position you end up in when fighting an opponent who will trade with you. The clinch is wing chun's best range, but many don't play in that range as much as they should in my view. We also would use lines of attack etc etc but its about what happens when you bridge. I not a fan of just chain punching and switch lines - I think this happens more if you attack someone who is a lower level that you in wing chun. It doesn't happen if they don't play that game.