Fanzi quan ballad

[ghostexorcist]

The so-called Fanzi quan ballad states: "Wu Mu (Yue Fei) has passed down the Fanzi quan which has mystery in its straightforward movements." I've only seen this on the internet or repeated in martial arts circles. Is there a particular source for this? I remember a few years ago that someone on here or another MA forum said that there is an older version stating that another historical figure passed down the style.

I am writing a paper on the reason why so many styles are attributed to Yue Fei. I would like to have some sources for such sayings.

[ShaolinDan]

That's funny...The Eagle claw story is that Yue Fei created the claws, which were later combined with Fanzi (sometime in the Ming) to create the Eagle Claw that has been passed down. Lai Chin is supposed to have been a Fanzi master, then picked up the 108 claws at Shaolin and combined them. No mention of where Fanzi came from at all.

Must be a new (or little known?) story...otherwise why not give credit to Yue fei for the whole eagle claw sytem?

[bawang]

none of the martial arts today come from yue fei or are even remotely related to yue fei.

when you say your style comes from yue fei thats a polite way to say you dont know where it came from.

yue fei practiced lancing from horseback.
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/HorsebackLance.htm

[ghostexorcist]

none of the martial arts today come from yue fei or are even remotely related to yue fei.

[...]

I know. My paper will show that the turmoil of the late Ming and the Qing brought about patriotic literature that influenced martial artists to attribute their styles to him.

[xiao yao]

it seems like a lot of styles are attributed to historical or mythical figures and there is no real verifiable connection eg Zhang San Feng, Wing Chun, Wang Lang

[ShaolinDan]

it seems like a lot of styles are attributed to historical or mythical figures and there is no real verifiable connection eg Zhang San Feng, Wing Chun, Wang Lang

Yes, Ghost (and most of us) is well aware of that. As a historian he's interested in where these attributions came from, regardless of their 'truth.'

I'm guessing that the Fanzi attribution to Yue fei is relatively modern (or else very isolated), based on the Eagle Claw story--which is also almost certainly made up, but a fairly long time ago. Just guessing though...

[RenDaHai]

I've heard that phrase before as well.

A lot of stuff was deliberately not written down and passed only through oral tradition, lest the written copy falls into the wrong hands. Sounds silly but this is true, I have experienced the practice first hand while living in China. So i think you will be hard pressed to find many written copies.

YueFei has many styles attributed to him. There is even YueJia Quan and Yue Shi XinYi which are less famous.

Styles related to XinYi tend to be attributed to Yue Fei. Fanzi Quan is an ancient style that has been combined many times (Chuojiao Fanzi, PiGua Fanzi, YingZhua Fanzi, Kaoshou Fanzi). For the purest I would suggest looking into the stories of DongBeiFanzi Quan. And bear in mind that fanzi quan has a great many names. Bashanfan springs to mind but there are many more.

Printed manuals are rare, hand written ones exist but are often copied (and modified) from older editions, which makes dating the original difficult. And as I say the Oral tradition is still prevalent in the Kung Fu circles. Secrecy still exists.

Eagle claw is a strange one and usually it is attributed to the 13 claws style of Shaolin at some point. 13 claws (not eagle, dragon or tiger, just claw) is a style that still (barely) exists in SongShan today, but you will often find claw systems that have a 13 claw set or 13 essential movements. 13 claws may not have been originally shaolin but is certainly identified with shaolin. Because the most common Eagle claw style is Yingzhua fanzi quan it also has a yue fei attribution (from the fanzi). There are actually quite many styles of eagle claw. Does anyone practice it? Does it have 13 base movements? A saying we have among Shaolins Wulinjie is 'I'm not afraid of heaven or earth, only of Shaolins 13 claws' No one likes to fight someone trained in this style since even if you win you are likely to be somewhat mauled. The effectiveness relies heavily on how honed is your claw.

[ShaolinDan]

Eagle claw is a strange one and usually it is attributed to the 13 claws style of Shaolin at some point. 13 claws (not eagle, dragon or tiger, just claw) is a style that still (barely) exists in SongShan today, but you will often find claw systems that have a 13 claw set or 13 essential movements. 13 claws may not have been originally shaolin but is certainly identified with shaolin. Because the most common Eagle claw style is Yingzhua fanzi quan it also has a yue fei attribution (from the fanzi). There are actually quite many styles of eagle claw. Does anyone practice it? Does it have 13 base movements?

I do. The attribution to Yue fei is through the 108 Eagle Claws, not through the Fanzi. At least these days... Supposedly Yue fei created them for soldiers who have been disarmed as a way to capture their opponents weapon.

Base movements I've learned so far are based in 10's (I've learned two different series of 10 basic movements)...but I don't know the complete system.

[GeneChing]

While it's true that most of the creation stories are apocryphal, that's no reason to discard them. Quite the opposite. Once you get past the beginning stage of historic research (ie. discrediting the myths), the next part is understanding why these myths were attributed to said legendary figures. The knee-jerk response is to say 'marketing' and I'm sure there's some truth in that, but there's a deeper level, a resonance to the legend, be it patriotic or spiritual, that's very interesting. Association to such legendary figures carries an implicit philosophy or ethical code. It's the soul of the style.

[ShaolinDan]

While it's true that most of the creation stories are apocryphal, that's no reason to discard them. Quite the opposite. Once you get past the beginning stage of historic research (ie. discrediting the myths), the next part is understanding why these myths were attributed to said legendary figures. The knee-jerk response is to say 'marketing' and I'm sure there's some truth in that, but there's a deeper level, a resonance to the legend, be it patriotic or spiritual, that's very interesting. Association to such legendary figures carries an implicit philosophy or ethical code. It's the soul of the style.

Agreed. While Yue Fei most likely did not create the 108 Eagle Claws, the notion that they were developed for an unarmed fighter to use against an armed fighter, certainly matches up with the strengths of Eagle Claw. And yes, loyalty is also important (though these days often forgotten), which is, I guess, what Yue Fei is best remembered for.

[Howard]

The so-called Fanzi quan ballad states: "Wu Mu (Yue Fei) has passed down the Fanzi quan which has mystery in its straightforward movements." I've only seen this on the internet or repeated in martial arts circles. Is there a particular source for this? I remember a few years ago that someone on here or another MA forum said that there is an older version stating that another historical figure passed down the style.

I am writing a paper on the reason why so many styles are attributed to Yue Fei. I would like to have some sources for such sayings.

The Poem is from Yu Boqian and is written as either Luo Chuan/洛串 or Wu Mu/武穆

洛串留下翻子举，直出直入妙含玄。
　　忽进忽退应机变，亦刚亦乘巧连环。
　　动如迅雷难掩耳，静如太岳稳如山。
　　虚虚实实难招架，指上打下手飞翻。
　　旱地行舟是步法，一步三拳是根源。
　　车轮功练铁罗汉，铁臂动深无遮拦。
　　三感五节是要诀，周身气力发涌泉。
　　内有七拳成绝艺，直劈横崩摔捋缠。
　　直拳打法最简便，不招不架直向前。
　　泰山压顶用猛劈，连劈带挑是截拦。
　　横能破竖竖破横，横出直入暗舒肩。
　　崩拳就是挑打式，连挑带砸防护严。
　　摔拳本是翻拳变，上提下滚左右旋。
　　持手本是顺手带，一收一放紧相连。
　　遇敌应知稳准狠，心慌意乱败之源。
　　最忌一发即深入，出手等手非真传。
　　拳打架式招打快，练到无拳是真拳。

Since it is written by Yu Boqian so much later generation it covers the Dongbei Fanzi, not necessarily the prior instances (whether it is called BaFanzi or BaShanfan or Bafan), from around Hebei and Shandong.

The last line is cute - " Practice until there is NO fist is the REAL fist "