Truthers

[Shǎguā]

So you run an activist group and one of your members is accused of striking a girl in a wheelchair on a NYC sidewalk followed by an altercation with the girl's father.

Normal PR reaction: We do not condone violence and if any inappropriate act was committed by our membership we in no way support or excuse it. For the time being, though, we are reserving judgment until all the fact are revealed about the incident in question.

Truther PR reaction: The girl's father was using his daughter a weapon against our members as part of a wider plot to discredit us!


A mentally ill man becomes obsessed with your group's 9/11 conspiracy message and opens fire on Pentagon security officials, apparently in an effort to lash out at the "real" 9/11 conspirators.

Normal PR reaction: We in no way condone this horrible act of violence and wish a speedy recovery to the wounded officers. Clearly this man was mentally ill and it's unfortunate that he chose to associate with our peaceful group.

Truther PR reaction: We must seriously entertain the notion that this was yet another false flag attack. This man was probably put up to it somehow by the government as a way of making the truth movement look insane - which we're totally not as you can tell by our take on the situation.


Your most celebrated "expert" on structural engineering reveals that she thinks beam weapons destroyed the WTC. A few years later your top scientist says he's looking into whether the Haitian earthquake was man-made.

Normal PR reaction: ****...we gotta be more careful with who we place our trust in. It's been a painfull lesson for us, but it will only sharpen our ability to spot such idiots in the future.

Truther PR reaction: Clearly Judy Wood and Steven Jones are disinfo agents whose task has been to undermine the TM from within! They started off with credible stuff about Kebler Elves and thermite bombs, but then, having gained our trust, they started talking shere nonsense.


In the midst of a conversation about WTC7, you find yourself unable to explain away the FDNY's support for the "official story." You patch up the holes in your theory by saying "the firefighters are paid off!"

Normal PR reaction: Sorry, that was pretty stupid, wasn't it? I simply didn't know what else to say because Abby had cornered me so badly. I actually do NOT think the FDNY was "paid off" and I'll get back to you when I've thought of an explanation that is slightly less insulting to the heroes of 9/11.

Truther PR reaction: "Jedi mind trick!"

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=169520

[David Jamieson]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=169520

yeah, for the most part they're projecting assumptive idiots.
They rank up there with far below average thinkers.

[Syn7]

UUgh, truthers. I'm not usually suprised by how low some will sink in politics. But the fact that this has dragged on so long after all the info we have available. I'm disgusted by the fact that some folks are such mental midgets that they would allow their misdirected sense of patriotism to cloud them from a most glaringly obvious 'truth'......

[Shǎguā]

The things that interests me most about the 9/11 truther movement:

Who funds it? Why?

One of the basic rules of media productions is "the only free media is advertising media." In other words, professionally produced (ie funded) media that is then given away for free on the Internet is, quite simply, a form of advertising; an infomercial, if you will.

Advertising for what? Here's where it gets interesting.

Mike Ruppert:
Wrote "CROSSING THE RUBICON: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil": 'a detective story that gets to the innermost core of the 9/11 attacks. It places 9/11 at the center of a desperate new America, created by specific, named individuals in preparation for Peak Oil: an economic crisis like nothing the world has ever seen.'

Ruppert is a mouthpiece for the oil industry/gov't, who seeks to - through 911 truth exposure - spread the peak oil scam as well as make people believe there are no viable alternative energies worth pursuing.

Ruppert also wants to inform us that because of "peak oil", "population reduction" is a necessity. The only question is whether to do it "nice or nasty". On his book promotion tour, he makes speeches in which he quotes approvingly from past racist eugenics supporters like Charles Galton Darwin, whom Ruppert refers to as "distinguished". (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/Commonwealth.pdf )

Barrie Zwicker
Produced "The Great Conspiracy"
In it, he sells the "peak oil" scam, and that it is the primary motive for the attacks. He sells Ruppert -in fact, it's an unabashed commercial for Ruppert, whom Zwicker refers to as the very first 911 skeptic in the world; sells Ruppert's soon to be released new book.

Jimmy Walter
heir to his father's company's fortune. Owner of www.walden3.org . The site seeks to promote "rational, planned and sustainable cities" and it promotes its model to everyone, even fascists. "Libertarians, socialists, objectivists, communists, fascists, capitalists, or a combination of economic systems can use our hypothetical city-factory-machine." Here are a couple of excerpts from the website:

"The school and socialization systems train citizens in Rational Emotive Behavior Theory [REBT], the modern, scientific combination of Stoicism and Epicureanism. This teaches rational acceptance of life and one's self, and how to control emotions, preventing or correcting emotional and thinking problems early."

"When people give up these exaggerations, they acquire high frustration tolerance, which encourages them to accept (not like) life's hardships and other people's imperfections."

His sponsorship and website are listed in promotional material for the 911 projects he supports and mentioned at said 9-11 events, so his promotion of 911 Truth exposure will draw attention to his Walden3 "philosophy". He's also donated tons of anti-bush t-shirts which contain his walden3 web address to NY911truth which sells them to raise funds. Thus, in return for his funds, the 911 Truth Movement is itself promoting his stuff.

David Ray Griffin
Wrote "The New Pearl Harbor", beloved by many in the 911 Truth Movement as providing a definitive 911 skeptics account, even discussing various physical evidence claims pointing to 9-11 being an inside job.

Griffin, referred to as a "well known theologian", has some unusual ideas about how humanity should think about God and apparently wants us to revert to some type of mysticism on our path to the new world order. Here's an interview of him talking about it: http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC24/Griffin.htm

Byron Belitsos
co-founder and Board Member of 911truth.org. Edited and published Jim Marrs' 911 Inside Job book.

Bryon writes in Marrs' book without indicating he's in any way himself connected with the organization, let alone one of its two founders: "P.S. A special note to researchers: Be sure to visit 911Truth.org, the portal site of the leading researchers, writers, publishers, activists, webmasters, and leaders in the 9/11 truth movement."

Besides being a self-proclaimed leader of the 911 Truth Movement, Byron is a one world government supporter and is releasing a book he co-wrote urging a world government, which he indicates in his preface to Jim Marrs' 9-11 book is meant to really supplement Marrs' 9-11 book: "I also felt directed to publish a second book, which is an Origin Press companion to Inside Job. This book is entitled One Planet: A Progressive Vision of Enforceable Global Law. Byron also promotes an 'alternative bible' called The Urantia Book.
http://www.romancingtheuniverse.net/worldpeace.htm

Many in the movement also speak positively of another past one world government/eugenics supporter, Bertrand Russell. As Brian Salter has noted: "many in the 9/11 truth movement think that Russell should be its model.
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/russell.html

Richard Gage
Founder of AE911Truth. Gage gets paid to give speeches at conferences organized by supporters of the 9/11 Truth movement in various locations in the United States and Canada. He has presented his multimedia talk "9/11 Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction" in 14 countries. The movie "9/11 Blueprint for Truth" is based on his lecture. He's involved with the Multi-Level-Marketing group Wealth Masters International. He plugs David Ray Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor," and asks for $20 'donations' at his lectures to obtain his "9/11 Blueprint for Truth" DVD.
http://www.ae911truth.org/news/41-ar...n-jamaica.html


One of the things I find most interesting is how many of these "9/11 Truth Movement Leaders" scream about the "New World Order" and "Globalization," yet are actually affiliated with organisations with direct links to such ideology. Richard Falk, who collaborates with David Ray Griffin, is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He's worked on new world order projects for the CFR, like the World Order Models Project financed by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Rockefeller Foundation. Another Griffin collaborator, John Cobb, is a former senior economist for the World Bank. Griffin and Cobb founded the Center for Process Studies which received support from the Rockefeller Foundation. Griffin and Cobb have also co-authored some materials with Club of Rome member Herman Daly.


There's more stuff to be found, I'm sure... I'll post it it as I find it. Feel free to add, to make observations, and posit wtf this is all about.

[wenshu]

None of those links are videos! You expect us to read?!?

[David Jamieson]

Not only that, but this is contrary material and therefore of the same validity.

It is not about persuasion and never really was, it is about honest assessment and presentation of explanations.

To be frank, had the documents been open and transparent and had the official story not had so many gaping ommisions there probably would be a lot less of a truther movement.

There was a lot of ball dropping done and blatant attempts at hiding things that reflect poorly on the foreign policies of the US. I think this is one of Ron Paul's talking points these days. IE: "ask people why they attack the US". You don't honestly think these people are jealous of your lifestyle do you? Because to believe that, is the height of ignorance.

Many of these people hate the USA because of how the US runs it's foreign operations both in business and in a military sense. Bases everywhere, threats to all sorts of sovereign countries and so on and so forth.

Bottom line is that the official government story is not truthful and doesn't even address many of the issues such as Pennsylvania and wtc7. So, it is culpable and it has opened itself to criticism and speculation because of that.

Quite simply, people will not buy official stories hook line and sinker anymore and the uS government has a consistent history of lying and deceiving it's own people in an effort to maintain power and wealth for a small group of people who control much of the wealth in the US. I think it is folly to deny that as it can be readily shown and demonstrated with only a modicum of digging.

[Drake]

I also read once that people are more comfortable believing that everything is secretly being handled by covert operations than believing that we really AREN'T in control, and yes, some of those covert organizations totally dropped the ball.

People forget that the CIA and whatnot is ran by the same fallible humans... the same folks who also accidentally pour their cereal into their coffee in the morning because they are half awake. And the same folks who miss what, in hindsight, were clear warning signs.

For a lot of people, the thought of superhuman covert operatives is easier to deal with.

[David Jamieson]

TO further the idea put forward by Drake, I think it is more than that.

I think people are buck passers and lazy minded in a broad and general sense. We wouldn't even have government if not for this simple fact about the human condition.

Generally speaking, nobody seems to want to actually do what is required when it is something difficult like waging a war. It's easier to sit back and let some enthusiast for that do it.

But god forbid that enthusiast should make an error! Despite nobody else having the motivation or balls to do what needed to be done.

[wenshu]

I also read once that people are more comfortable believing that everything is secretly being handled by covert operations than believing that we really AREN'T in control, and yes, some of those covert organizations totally dropped the ball.

Certainly allows for convenient oversimplification. The world is much easier to understand when you can just drop the names of shadowy organizations as being the root cause of all evil in the world. Makes arguing about it easy as well. You can just accuse everyone who questions you as being blind despite never actually having taken the time to find out what your interlocutor actually believes. It's really just narcissism by means of laziness.

I have one question, if some nebulous sinister organization bent on world domination has been powerful enough to not only pull the strings on world events but also cover them up for the last century then what the fuck is taking them so long? If they can orchestrate worldwide cover ups of their roles in the most significant events of the 20th century, why aren't we all already in labor camps under the boot heels of a global totalitarian police state?

[Drake]

Certainly allows for convenient oversimplification. The world is much easier to understand when you can just drop the names of shadowy organizations as being the root cause of all evil in the world. Makes arguing about it easy as well. You can just accuse everyone who questions you as being blind despite never actually having taken the time to find out what your interlocutor actually believes. It's really just narcissism by means of laziness.

I have one question, if some nebulous sinister organization bent on world domination has been powerful enough to not only pull the strings on world events but also cover them up for the last century than what the fuck is taking them so long? If they can orchestrate worldwide cover ups of their roles in the most significant events of the 20th century, why aren't we all already in labor camps under the boot heels of a global totalitarian police state?

Because they keep adapting it to current events. This **** was supposed to happen in the 1980s, then it adapted to the 1990's, now it's adapting to today's current events. There will never be an actual "takeover". It's just applying current events to a template. It's easy. Just exchange current events for past ones, add Illuminati, and keep the same general menace. Hell, I remember when the truthers thought there was a "Tower of Babel" being built in Israel...

[Hardwork108]

None of those links are videos! You expect us to read?!?

Yes, god forbid! I mean what was the man thinking, expecting some of the posters here to actually read!

Of course, perhaps he was aware of the negative attitudes towards Youtube videos here in the forums and try in vain to adapt and make amendments......LOL!

Just can't win in this place.....LOL!

[David Jamieson]

Just can't win in this place.....LOL!

...maybe it's cause you are prospecting for Tin in a wheat field?

[wenshu]

Yes, god forbid! I mean what was the man thinking, expecting some of the posters here to actually read!

Of course, perhaps he was aware of the negative attitudes towards Youtube videos here in the forums and try in vain to adapt and make amendments......LOL!

Just can't win in this place.....LOL!

Was that another one of your "I know you are but what am I" reversals or are you really that obtuse. . .

[Shǎguā]

I have one question, if some nebulous sinister organization bent on world domination has been powerful enough to not only pull the strings on world events but also cover them up for the last century then what the fuck is taking them so long? If they can orchestrate worldwide cover ups of their roles in the most significant events of the 20th century, why aren't we all already in labor camps under the boot heels of a global totalitarian police state?

...and if they can orchestrate worldwide coverups, why didn't they hide the fact that there were no wmds in Iraq? I mean, if they're the masterminds ppl claim them to be, they could've just planted them, right?

What about the prisoner abuses? Why let any of that get out? These coverup gurus should've been able to keep that secret...

As for Osama Bin Laden... why involve another country like Pakistan, when it would've been much easier and simpler to just fabricate a fake capture/assassination in Afghanistan? I mean, that's where he was supposed to be, right?

Right???

The more I examine the 9/11 Truth movement, the more I begin to see that it's basically a form of crisis capitalism / crisis fraud. It plays on fear, uncertainty and the general public's unwillingness to accept/believe that the US government is not infallible/all powerful. It uses some of the same psychological manipulation techniques that psychics and faith healers use. It also uses distribution and growth tactics developed by Multi-Level-Marketing/Motivational Speakers. The end goal is also similar; to line the pockets of the movement's "leaders" by toying with people's emotions.

An interesting financial aspect is the emphasis on "tax deductible donations" as admission fees and in exchange for materials. I'm no tax expert, but there seems to be something fishy going on... some kind of illicit financial practices?

[David Jamieson]

This doesn't explain how some kid sitting in his mom's basement in Colombia becomes obsessed with the subject and won't stop typing out one sided diatribes in a content unrelated site.