Zhai Yao Yi Lu

[Tainan Mantis]

Movement Thirty-three
进 步 玉 女 绣 花
jìn bù yù nǚ xiù huā
Advance Step, Jade Maiden Embroiders

This is a combined elbow/shoulder locking technique. It is similar to the shiho-nage technique of Aikido.

Movement Thirty-four
阳 钩 底 叫
yáng gōu dǐ jiào
Yang Hook, Provoke Bottom

This is similar to the kote-gaeshi technique of Jujutsu.

You are using something like these?
Aikido hands in shihonage

Aikido - KOTEGAESHI

[mooyingmantis]

You are using something like these?
Aikido hands in shihonage

No, this is Aikikai based Aikido. It is a more gentler approach. I am speaking of more combat oriented aikido. Early Yoshinkan Aikido would be closer to what I am talking about. Also, please note that I said "similar", not the same.

In the video you linked to, the circular motion is done on an almost vertical plane, like a waterwheel. In Jade Maiden Embroiders the circular motion is done on a more horizontal plane, like a millstone. Yet the effect on the structure of the shoulder joint is similar when the action is done violently.

Aikido - KOTEGAESHI

This link doesn't work. But please note that I didn't compare Yang Hook, Provoke Bottom to the kotegaeshi of Aikido. I compared it to the kotegaeshi of traditional Jujutsu. Which are two different methods. The closest comparison would be with the action used in the kotegaeshi of the upper level of Hakko-ryu Jujutsu.

Perhaps I am comparing golden delicious apples with jonathan apples, but at least I was still in the orchard.

[Tainan Mantis]

The link is working when I hit it.
It is interesting to see Mantis moves in other arts, but I did not follow these examples.

Maybe if you would supply the clip ( i know, it would take time).

In movement seven of Zhai Yao Yi Lu we find:

Movement Seven
左 搓 捶 右 砘 肘
zuǒ cuō chuí yòu dùn zhǒu
Left Rubbing Strike, Right Stone Elbow

The Chinese word, 砘 - dùn, refers to a farming tool. After a farmer or landscaper plowed a piece of ground, they would use a stone roller to smooth out the dirt. The stone roller was called a 砘 - dùn.

Where do you get that character? It is an interesting hypothesis, but I don't think we can label it as a fact just like that.

I went back and checked manuscripts from several different teachers, all use 頓
Cui Shoushan, Li Kunshan, Liang Xuexiang etc.

頓 this can mean to stop, or something that happens suddenly. But most important, it can mean to hit as in 頓腳, to stomp with the feet.

Or, when people are very angry they swing their head and stamp thier feet as in 甩頭頓足.-shuai tou dun zu

I would say that striking is more reasonable than the farming tool.

But, I am still with you, I haven't given up hope that some names of moves might be named after farming tools or rafting oars or methods to mount the horse etc.
Just don't think I can agree with this version. But would happy to look at evidence to the contrary.

[mooyingmantis]

Where do you get that character? It is an interesting hypothesis, but I don't think we can label it as a fact just like that.

I went back and checked manuscripts from several different teachers, all use 頓
Cui Shoushan, Li Kunshan, Liang Xuexiang etc.

頓 this can mean to stop, or something that happens suddenly. But most important, it can mean to hit as in 頓腳, to stomp with the feet.

Or, when people are very angry they swing their head and stamp thier feet as in 甩頭頓足.-shuai tou dun zu

I would say that striking is more reasonable than the farming tool.

But, I am still with you, I haven't given up hope that some names of moves might be named after farming tools or rafting oars or methods to mount the horse etc.
Just don't think I can agree with this version. But would happy to look at evidence to the contrary.

砘 肘 are the characters used at Zhang Bingdou's site here: http://www.chinatanglang.com/newsshow3.asp?id=100

Thank you for sharing the characters used by the past generations! I have revised my translation to reflect your research.

[mooyingmantis]

Below are three interesting techniques which have poetic names that mention thunder and lightning. After each quanpu I have given my paraphrase of Zhang Bingdou's description of each technique as found in his book, Taiji Meihua Tanglangquan, Shang

Movement Forty

钩 打 掌 手 雷 - gōu dǎ zhǎng shǒu léi - Hook Strike, Thunder Palm Hand

I use "Left Seal, Right Collapsing Strike" to strike the enemy's head area.
If the enemy lifts a hand to block, I follow powerfully downward to pluck his blocking hand's wrist or forearm,
Then I use my left hand to pluck and immobilize his elbow area.
Finally I use my right palm to strike his facial gate.

Movement Forty-one

电 张 手 - diàn zhāng shǒu - Lightning Spreading Hand

I use "Hook Strike, Thunder Palm Hand" to strike the enemy's facial gate.
If the enemy raises a hand to block, my right hand follows powerfully to grasp his blocking hand to the rear.
Then I use my left hand to strike his facial gate.

Movement Forty-two

霹 雷 掌 - pī léi zhǎng - Thunder Palm

I use "Lightning Spreading Hand" to strike the enemy's facial gate,
If the enemy raises a hand to block, I follow powerfully and move my left hand toward the left to pluck his blocking hand's wrist or forearm.
Then I use the right palm to chop his neck area.

[mooyingmantis]

Essentials #1 gives two examples for dealing with rear attacks. Like most effective defenses, they are short and sweet.

Raise Body, Aoyu Leans Body Kick - 起 身 鳌 鱼 侧 身 脚
The enemy attacks with his fist from the rear to strike my center area. I turn my body and use my right hand to pluck his incoming hand's wrist or forearm, then use my right foot to kick his crotch or abdominal area.

Turn Body, Overturn Chariot to the Bottom - 回 身 翻 车 至 底
If the enemy attacks from my rear, I use my left palm to chop his face gate. Then I use my right fist to chop strike his center gate.

We worked on this second rear defense technique in our last class as we practiced the Turn Body, Overturn Chariot to the Bottom, One Wick of Incense Faces Heaven, Insert Elbow and Crashing Dot Becomes Jade Ring combo.

I showed the students that it didn't matter if the enemy was creeping up on you, or if the enemy had already grabbed you with one hand. The first downward chop clears a path for the second downward strike to land. Also the combined turning, stepping and lowering the stance multiplies the force behind the downward strike. "Mount Tai Falling on the Head" is no joke in this example!

[mooyingmantis]

Movements Six & Thirteen

闭 手 挺 身 - bì shǒu tǐng shēn - Close the Hands, Straighten the Body

Here is a paraphrase of Master Zhang Bingdou's comments on the application of this technique:

The enemy uses a foot to kick my center area or uses a straight hand to strike my center area. I use both hands to follow powerfully afterwards to embrace, obstruct his incoming foot or hand, then return both palms to split strike his face gate.

When this movement is found in the many families of Mantis, it often acts as a pause at the end of a series of movements that form a combination or as an ending point to a form.

It works like a comma in a sentence or a rest mark in a measure of music. The practitioner pauses to compose himself with his palms "closing" his center gate, his posture straightened and his mind fully aware.

Like the mantis for which the style is named, the practitioner waits and assesses the situation before moving into the next series of motions.

Note: Master Wong Hon Fan refers to this posture as Ride the Tiger with Lifting Palms in his book series.

[xiao yao]

"Bi" is also one of the 12 keywords of taiji mantis

In our lineage that movement is also more than just a rest pose. The Bi is done with power, as it also serves as a block... can be done with both an upward or downward power (with a jolting power, that can be followed up with a strike)

[mooyingmantis]

"Bi" is also one of the 12 keywords of taiji mantis

It is also found in the keyword principles of Babu, Hao Jia and Mimen (Su Yuchang lineage).

Do you know how Master Zhou explains the "bi" principle?

In our lineage that movement is also more than just a rest pose. The Bi is done with power, as it also serves as a block... can be done with both an upward or downward power (with a jolting power, that can be followed up with a strike)

I believe that is true for all lineages that employ the technique. That is why I gave Master Zhang's application before my thoughts. It is certainly a valid self-defense technique.

[xiao yao]

He explained it as "closing your door", a defensive movement to protect yourself.

[mooyingmantis]

Recently, I was introduced to a version of Zhai Yao Yi Lu, that is similar to Luanjie in that it opens with five strikes rather than the commonly seen three strikes (Phoenix Pecks Three Times). It is practiced in at least one line of Hao Jia Taiji Meihua Tanglangquan.

Has anyone else seen this?

[iunojupiter]

I have two openings to Zhai Yao, both similar except for 1 movement, but then again, my sifu trained under Sun Deyao for a time, so that would explain the Hao like beginning. Zhai Yao as done by Zhang Bingdou is very similar to the Sun Deyao version as far as I can tell.

[xiao yao]

my shifu told me originally zhai yao started with a double outward circle with the hands and a kick, but song zi de got rid of it

[mooyingmantis]

my shifu told me originally zhai yao started with a double outward circle with the hands and a kick, but song zi de got rid of it

Interesting! That is still preserved in some Qixing Tanglangquan families.

Any idea why Song Zide changed it?

[mooyingmantis]

I have two openings to Zhai Yao, both similar except for 1 movement, but then again, my sifu trained under Sun Deyao for a time, so that would explain the Hao like beginning. Zhai Yao as done by Zhang Bingdou is very similar to the Sun Deyao version as far as I can tell.

I have seen the version taught by Master Sun Deyao. The beginning can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdxZ...e=results_main

The Haojia Taiji Meihua Tanglangquan version of Zhai Yao that I am currently learning and will be training in China begins with five movements:

pi chui - chopping strike
za chui - smashing strike
kuang shou da - frame hand strike
ye li cang tao - peach hidden under leaf
beng chui - collapsing strike

Though the first two moves admittedly are a modern addition, they certainly make sense in a combat setting.