Tan Sao against jab

[Graham H]

i didn't make myself clear. I wasn't saying what would you do, I was trying to give a very simplistic illustration. To re position my post, you talk about reacting and reacting in the right way etc etc but what is your trigger? what triggers your reactions? what makes you choose (at an unconcious level) reaction A versus reaction B? The human body only has 5 ways of gaining information, 1)sight 2)taste 3) hearing 4) smell and 5) touch. So realistically in a fight you have a choice of 1, 5 or 1&5 together (I'm assuming that you aren't licking / kissing your opponent) so which do you train to rely use in your lineage?

I don't know how many fights you have had mate but in the ones I have been in I haven't realized what's happened until its all over. Either I hit them or I get hit....what happens during is instinctive. I put faith in my training but I never over analyse it.

Fortunately for me I have never been seriously injured in a fight. They only last a short while. I could fight ok before Ving Tsun so it's never a problem........................luckily. One day it may be. Who knows?

My battles have been in pubs, clubs and carparks. I have won my fair share of competitions when I was younger but I'm not interested in THAT kind of fighting anymore.

G

[mjw]

For a jab I pan myself especially with the rear hand and hit them with a jab or straight left of my own. otherwise jun sao can work. My problem can be sticking to the speed of a trained boxers jab though I feel where it is going and I can feel the hole in the middle between their hands sometimes so I shoot a right and try to wedge into their center mass.

[wingchunIan]

I don't know how many fights you have had mate but in the ones I have been in I haven't realized what's happened until its all over. Either I hit them or I get hit....what happens during is instinctive. I put faith in my training but I never over analyse it.
G

Fair enough, each to their own. Explains the differences in the way we refer to chi sau. When I refer to contact, I am refering to that instantaneous contact when a signal is recieved and automatically acted upon without concious thought. The automatic reactions being developed over time through chi sau and other drills.

Glad to hear you've been successful in your fights so far, long may it continue.

[Yoshiyahu]

what lineage are you. We do the same thing. From contact of course...

Also what do you do if your opponent advoids contact with you an moves around alot.

Fair enough, each to their own. Explains the differences in the way we refer to chi sau. When I refer to contact, I am refering to that instantaneous contact when a signal is recieved and automatically acted upon without concious thought. The automatic reactions being developed over time through chi sau and other drills.

Glad to hear you've been successful in your fights so far, long may it continue.

[WCFighter]

Hi everyone,

My 2 cents...

I have met a few people in non-TWC wing chun lineages that have expressed their difficulty in using tan sao against a hook.

I always ask them "Why aren't you using bil sao?"

I cannot say Tan sao is my favorite technique for jabs or hooks... I can use Tan sao for these... but I feel more protected when I use a bil sao .

Relative to your center line... wu and tan protect your center line (not the side of your face), so you must really FACE the point of contact for them to work. With Bil Sao, it protects the side of your face, and the wrist does not need to be on the center line really... (its on a central line), so you can get away with not fully facing the point of contact.

If you aren't satisfied that your wing chun lineage (or sifu) is showing you
how to handle straight/round punches and straight/round kicks , then find one
that does.

I don't know all wing chun lineages in the world, but if you're only doing chi sao
and cannot stop basic punches in kicks from other styles (after 2 years of training)... there is something wrong with where you train.

I can honestly say that GM William Cheung's organization DOES teach people
how to fight/spar effectively with wing chun.


Hope this helps

[YouKnowWho]

When someone swings a rope with a rock attach to it, if you hit the middle of the rope, that rock will drop and that rope will wrap around your arm. When you use Tan Shou to block a hook punch, your opponent's hook punch arm may wrap under your shoulder. To dodge under a hook punch will be the best solution.

[Yoshiyahu]

Very good post...we are in agreement!!!

I learn the same way!

Hi everyone,

My 2 cents...

I have met a few people in non-TWC wing chun lineages that have expressed their difficulty in using tan sao against a hook.

I always ask them "Why aren't you using bil sao?"

I cannot say Tan sao is my favorite technique for jabs or hooks... I can use Tan sao for these... but I feel more protected when I use a bil sao .

Relative to your center line... wu and tan protect your center line (not the side of your face), so you must really FACE the point of contact for them to work. With Bil Sao, it protects the side of your face, and the wrist does not need to be on the center line really... (its on a central line), so you can get away with not fully facing the point of contact.

If you aren't satisfied that your wing chun lineage (or sifu) is showing you
how to handle straight/round punches and straight/round kicks , then find one
that does.

I don't know all wing chun lineages in the world, but if you're only doing chi sao
and cannot stop basic punches in kicks from other styles (after 2 years of training)... there is something wrong with where you train.

I can honestly say that GM William Cheung's organization DOES teach people
how to fight/spar effectively with wing chun.


Hope this helps

[Phil Redmond]

Hi everyone,

My 2 cents...

I have met a few people in non-TWC wing chun lineages that have expressed their difficulty in using tan sao against a hook.

I always ask them "Why aren't you using bil sao?"

I cannot say Tan sao is my favorite technique for jabs or hooks... I can use Tan sao for these... but I feel more protected when I use a bil sao .

Relative to your center line... wu and tan protect your center line (not the side of your face), so you must really FACE the point of contact for them to work. With Bil Sao, it protects the side of your face, and the wrist does not need to be on the center line really... (its on a central line), so you can get away with not fully facing the point of contact.

If you aren't satisfied that your wing chun lineage (or sifu) is showing you
how to handle straight/round punches and straight/round kicks , then find one
that does.

I don't know all wing chun lineages in the world, but if you're only doing chi sao
and cannot stop basic punches in kicks from other styles (after 2 years of training)... there is something wrong with where you train.

I can honestly say that GM William Cheung's organization DOES teach people
how to fight/spar effectively with wing chun.


Hope this helps

Biu (Bil) saos work great against "round" punches. Not against a "hook" punch. You should try not to be close enough for someone to use a hook on you anyway. That's what TWC teaches. The problem is understanding the distinction between a hook and a round punch.

[WCFighter]

Hi Master Redmond,

I like using Bil Sao for both...


By the way.. congrats on the article you published in
Kung Fu Magazine. I saw it at Sifu Ryan's school when I visited him.

Great article!

Dom

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Master Redmond,

I like using Bil Sao for both...


By the way.. congrats on the article you published in
Kung Fu Magazine. I saw it at Sifu Ryan's school when I visited him.

Great article!

Dom

Thank you. I can see using a Biu if you anticipate it and step back. I treat a tight hook like an elbow. You can't get an arm inside of an elbow strike because there's no space to do so.

[Yoshiyahu]

If you are not close enough to for them to do a hook are you fighting from a longer range than chi sau range?

Biu (Bil) saos work great against "round" punches. Not against a "hook" punch. You should try not to be close enough for someone to use a hook on you anyway. That's what TWC teaches. The problem is understanding the distinction between a hook and a round punch.

[Graham H]

Master Redmond,

Do me a favour! <<<<<pukes>>>>>

Probably better to call him Phil me thinks.

GH

[Graham H]

Fair enough, each to their own. Explains the differences in the way we refer to chi sau. When I refer to contact, I am refering to that instantaneous contact when a signal is recieved and automatically acted upon without concious thought. The automatic reactions being developed over time through chi sau and other drills.

Glad to hear you've been successful in your fights so far, long may it continue.

Wing Chun is Wing Chun. Passed down to the majority of us from ONE man! There should be no differences in interpretation! The differences come from people trying to re-invent the wheel because they spent 5 mins in Yip Man's school or think that just because they are a blood relation they were taught the whole system and have rights to be called masters!

GH

[Phil Redmond]

If you are not close enough to for them to do a hook are you fighting from a longer range than chi sau range?

A hook is way closer than chi sao range. Non boxers tend to think a round punch is a hook. A hook is "similar" to the lan saos in SLT. Try doing a single arm lan and think of how someone can get an arm inside that limited space.

[Phil Redmond]

Do me a favour! <<<<<pukes>>>>>

Probably better to call him Phil me thinks.

GH

I've only been doing Wing Chun for 41 years and I prefer "Si-Fu" but, Master is the position I have in our Association. What can I tell you? Opinions vary and you have the right to yours.
Also, you can't tell another grown man what he should say.