Tan Sao against jab

[Phil Redmond]

My opinion only... force the opponent to deal with you, instead you dealing with him.

(in the words of Sifu Wan Kam Leung of Practical Wing Chun HK)
Low level Martial Arts: just strike, or just defend.
Medium level MA: defend then strike 先消後打
High level MA: simultaneous defend and strike 連消帶打
Top level MA: attack then defend 先打後消

As soon as the opponent twitches, don't wait for the jab to surface, attack him (while covering his fist, elbows etc, of course). Then you don't need to deal with his jab/hook/combo to begin with.

I agree with you but Top level MA can get you a legal case.

[Graham H]

Treat a tight hook like an elbow. I'm replying from me cell at the present and it'll take too long for me to give a proper reply. Maybe I'll make a short clip. Btw, please excuse typos if any. Auto correct is in control. Lol

How will you (gen) know what to do??? There is no solid answer and there are too many factors to consider that could change ones whole perspective!

Whats the point in making a clip unless you get one of your training partners to rip into you with no holding back and should he throw an arcing punch within the onslaught, at best, you can say "well that's how I dealt with it that time."

Have any of you guys actually had a proper fight?

Ving Tsun is not kick boxing! We don't have katas where one action is in response to a certain attack!

WSL said that if for 95% of the time if you are attacking somebody then for 95% of the time they must be defending themselves which makes it difficult to attack back. This is a conceptual idea. What we learn in the training hall should give us the tools to improve our chances in a fight but to say that I would move this way or that way or use this action or that action against an opponent that may or may not throw a hook is f***ing ridiculous!

GH

[CFT]

What's wrong with training against semi-isolated techniques? The hook could come out at above-average regularity (for training purposes) amidst more general attacks?

If we followed your hard-line approach you would only rarely train your kicks, since it is "common sense" we keep our feet on the ground.

[nunchuckguy]

...What we learn in the training hall should give us the tools to improve our chances in a fight ...

GH

So would you mind sharing what tools you use?
And if I ask what tools you would possibly use IN CASE the opponent throw a jab/hook/elbow, etc., would that be a valid question to you?

[k gledhill]

WSL put it nicely in this short article :

WSL, REAL BATTLES

[Phil Redmond]

......
Have any of you guys actually had a proper fight?
GH

Of course.

[Phil Redmond]

........

Whats the point in making a clip......

GH

It would be a clip of what works for me and others. And yes, against someone trying to wreck you.

[Graham H]

What's wrong with training against semi-isolated techniques? The hook could come out at above-average regularity (for training purposes) amidst more general attacks?

If we followed your hard-line approach you would only rarely train your kicks, since it is "common sense" we keep our feet on the ground.

For a beginner yes! We need these isolated techniques at the start to get the student used to certain actions, reponses and instill courage. Once one is able to engage in gor sau/sparring then then everything is thrown together. How one responds in sparring or a real fight cannot be chrystalized! Up until this point its hard work, repetition and co-operation between two like minded training partners.

You wouldn't drill a tan sau against a linear punch unless your idea of Wing Chun is extremely flawed!

GH

[Graham H]

It would be a clip of what works for me and others. And yes, against someone trying to wreck you.

Can't wait!


G

[Phil Redmond]

Can't wait!


G

Wow, no in your reply. There IS hope. . . .lol

[trubblman]

I want to train myself to fight against kickboxers with Wing Chun.

Me and my friend practice together yesterday.

My theory is to first train to counter long range attacks and then slowly move into close range where Chi Sao moves are applicable.

The first problem I face is the fast jabs of a boxer.

I found outside Pak Sao really effective. But while using inside Tan Sao, it only works when I turn horse or else I need to use a lot of force to deflect that punch.

Any ideas?

Nunchuck Guy

I dont get it. Do you mean tan sau on inner gate? If so arent u already close range?

[EternalSpring]

oh, and dont forget to do things in combinations. I dont know if everyone would agree with this but it's worked for me so far. It's one of the first things to learn when boxing as well, that throwing single punches consistently is a pretty bad idea. Either youre throwing combos or setting up a combo.

In the same sense, if you're opponent is decent, he'll be working in combos too and most definitely will follow up his first punch that is blocked. That's why I like to default to pak-da, pak-jong, pak-tan, type of movements, well because I'm somewhat physically weak compared to most people but also because the combinations of movements either help me defend against combos as a defense or they can work offensively by creating a better opening.

This is also probably another noob move but whenever I feel my sparring partner is moving a lot I tend to consistently switch up my jong and footwork. Ive never actually asked my opponent how i feel about this but I assumed that it ruins their positioning because at one point they may move outside my guard and a simply switch of which had is forward in my job totally changes that positioning.

Note that I myself am not pro at sparring/fighting nor would i call myself experienced. But I think of these as very basic things that help me, and while they aren't the "counter x with y" type of answers (which dont even really exist imo), they're still decent ways to deal with an opponent and his jab (and possibly other stuff)

just my 2c

[anerlich]

Whats the point in making a clip unless you get one of your training partners to rip into you with no holding back

I'd like to see P Bayer do that rather than the chi sao stuff he does in your and Kev's usual clips.

[Phil Redmond]

I'd like to see P Bayer do that rather than the chi sao stuff he does in your and Kev's usual clips.

Oh no you di'int: lol

[Phil Redmond]

I know Andrew knows what I'm talking about. It's not magic and it requires some eye training, right Andrew? I use it all the time and I know your Sifu taught you. He's a legend in many people's eyes including mine though he's not known by many.