Grab: How and Why

[Shaolin]

Even in Eagle Claw, most grabs are applied after contact has been established--Do you not use thumbs even when throwing or submitting?

No. Whether gi or no gi grabs, throws and subs are done with the 4 fingers and the thumb to the side. Even the freestyle/greco wrestling grips typically used are a Gable grip and 'S' grip, neither of which utilize the thumbs.

[Dragonzbane76]

especially with Gi throws you are grabbing, usually, with the 4 fingers and twisting the material to lock your hand in place with thumb on the outside.

But of course there are times you use you thumb and grip in conjunction. But like I said I like, in the clinch, to use the hooks for better control. As for submittions there are verying factors in determining what I'm going to use. A lot of times position and fulcrum points will differ according to angles. Sometimes I will grip on the ground but others I will use mine and there body for the submittion.

[jdhowland]

White Crane & Hap Ga prefer the use of gross motor skills--joint locks without gripping. When a real grip is used, thumb in opposition to fingertips, it's for pain and tearing tissues. Strength is developed by fingertip push ups, chopstick twisting, and by gripping, swinging and curling weights (stone locks and muhk yih paai).

Both the radial- and ulnar-side approach are considered in clearing movements that may result in the opportunity to seize, but they are considered high-risk techniques due to the likelihood of missing or achieving a slippery grip. "Monkey hand" grips are considered specialized technique requiring extra training. The preferred method is to perform joint locks without an initial grip.

[ShaolinDan]

Interesting. Thanks. I will have to give my chinna a try without thumbs and see how it changes things.

[YouKnowWho]

try without thumbs ...

It depends on where do you grab.

In no Gi environment, the pulling will be a major issue. Without pulling, many throws can not be performed. When your hand control under your opponent's elbow, you will find out that if your "thumb" and "index finger" can "hook" on your opponent's upper arm bone (right at "humerus" that the bone is from thin to fat), you can have much solid grip even your opponent may have sweat on his body. It's one solution for "slippery grip". You will find out that your "thumb" and "index finger" play an important role in "elbow joint" grip.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...EwBg&dur=10978

For "wrist joint" grip, the middle finger, ring finger, and pinky may be more functional because your "pinky" can have a tight "hook" on your opponent's wrist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hand_parts.jpg

[ginosifu]

We hook in Jiu Jitsu as well. Thumbs get caught in clothing and stuck. This can result in damage to the thumb and/or wrist while rolling. In wrestling we mostly use hooks for control (except when hand fighting). Clinch in Thai Boxing also uses hooks. Personally I've find very little benefit to using thumb grips over hook grips.

I have never had any problems using my thumbs while controlling opponents. In my Shuai Chiao matches I always used my thumb to "Lock In" any grip I had on a jacket (gripping the jacket into a fist). The same when gripping a arm or wrist, the thumb wraps around like making a fist or an Eagle's Claw.

I am not saying anything against what others do, just would like to point out that Superior Grip Training can give you and edge in controlling techniques.

ginosifu

[TaichiMantis]

We do grip training in mantis, very important for the chin na techniques.

[Ray Pina]

It is worth the time to research which grabs are illegal in BJJ tournaments with gi. They're illegal because those grips are too dominant.

[Yao Sing]

I always felt the stuff not allowed in sporting events is exactly the stuff I want to know and train.

[ShaolinDan]

It depends on where do you grab.

In no Gi environment, the pulling will be a major issue. Without pulling, many throws can not be performed. When your hand control under your opponent's elbow, you will find out that if your "thumb" and "index finger" can "hook" on your opponent's upper arm bone (right at "humerus" that the bone is from thin to fat), you can have much solid grip even your opponent may have sweat on his body. It's one solution for "slippery grip". You will find out that your "thumb" and "index finger" play an important role in "elbow joint" grip.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...EwBg&dur=10978

For "wrist joint" grip, the middle finger, ring finger, and pinky may be more functional because your "pinky" can have a tight "hook" on your opponent's wrist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hand_parts.jpg

Yes. We like to wrap around bone (or under muscles).
For a wrist grab the thumb wraps one bone, the fingers the other... The grabs themselves are attacks, not just a means of control.

One detail to note--we dig in with the tips of the fingers, not the pads. Grip/finger training is essential for this method.

[ShaolinDan]

It is worth the time to research which grabs are illegal in BJJ tournaments with gi. They're illegal because those grips are too dominant.

So you like to grab inside your opponent's sleeve?