Zhai Kui

[Tainan Mantis]

Today Shihfu James Rodgers finished teaching me the Praying Mantis Kung Fu closed door form, Zhai Kui

Why do you say 'closed-door?'
What is closed-door about it?

[mooyingmantis]

Why do you say 'closed-door?'

Because that is how it was described by Yang Xiaodong and James Rodgers. And if the term is good enough for them...

What is closed-door about it?

The things I cannot discuss on a public forum.

[alextse4]

Any one here seen the 2 men form of 7 stars Zhai Kui?

[mooyingmantis]

Alex,
Not yet. Though we do have the form. I just haven't learned it yet.

Does the Hong Kong Seven Star branch practice Zhai Kui?

[alextse4]

Alex,
Not yet. Though we do have the form. I just haven't learned it yet.

Does the Hong Kong Seven Star branch practice Zhai Kui?

No LGY's lineage did not have Zhai Kui.
GM Chung Yin Bo have this 2 men form.

[mooyingmantis]

No LGY's lineage did not have Zhai Kui.
GM Chung Yin Bo have this 2 men form.

Thank you for that information!

[mooyingmantis]

At the beginning of this thread we debated about the history of the form. Who created it? What lineage did it come from?

This morning I had the pleasant opportunity to sit down with Master Yang Xiaodong for about an hour and a half and discuss these questions.

Here is what I was told:

1. Who created the form has been lost in time.
2. The form came down through the Seven Star line of mantis.
3. It was Wang Songting who called the form, along with two other forms, Shuaishou Tanglangquan (Slapping Hands Mantis). He referred to the form as "slapping hands", because of the opening movements of the form which should have a "slapping" feel.
4. It was popular in Taiwan and there are now several versions.
5. The name, "Take the Helmet", comes from the neck breaking techniques found in the form.
6. Master Yang learned the form directly from Wang Songting.

The three forms taught by the Wutan that Wang Songting referred to as Shuaishou Tanglangquan are:

插 捶 - chā chuí - Insert Fist
摘 盔 - zhāi kuī - Take the Helmet
螳 螂 手 - táng láng shǒu - Praying Mantis Hand

The above Cha Chui is different from the Hong Kong Cha Chui form of the same name.

[xiao yao]

zhou shifu told me the form tanglang shou was created by liang jing chuan, the son of liang xue xiang. he said it has a similar flavour to chuan zhi of hao family

also, in our meihua lu is a movement called ba wang zhai kui - tyrant takes the helmet, which proceeds qin fa cuo zui ba - grab the hair and hit the mouth. are these the same moves that are in your form richard?

[mooyingmantis]

zhou shifu told me the form tanglang shou was created by liang jing chuan, the son of liang xue xiang. he said it has a similar flavour to chuan zhi of hao family

Yes, that is the same history that I heard for the form. However, somehow it was adopted into the Seven Star family and taught in Taiwan by them.

also, in our meihua lu is a movement called ba wang zhai kui - tyrant takes the helmet, which proceeds qin fa cuo zui ba - grab the hair and hit the mouth. are these the same moves that are in your form richard?

I know the movement you are talking about. But it is not the same movement in Zhai Kui. I will gladly show you the form and the particular movement when we hook up in Yantai.

[mooyingmantis]

Zhai Kui techniques encompass all four methods of mantis attacks (da, ti, shuai, na).

Here is a breakdown of techniques found in the form:

23 hand attacks (fists, palms, claws)
14 throwing techniques,
5 elbow techniques,
3 leg techniques,
4 joint locking techniques,
3 neck breaking techniques,
2 eye gouging techniques.

These numbers can change based on the version of the form one learns.

The main target areas include the eyes, throat, neck, heart, diaphragm, bladder and groin.