History of WCK: Tan Sau Ng

[Marcelo-RJ]

Eric, thank you for the info you provided on basic and advanced SNT forms.
I wish you all the best in your journeys under GM Garrett Gee's guidance.
Be well, brother!

[LoneTiger108]

It is interesting to see (again) how the HFY guys discuss and learn their SLT and hearing the term 'advanced' SLT does bring a smile to my face.

I think it's great that you have good progression within the HFY system, but I would also suggest being careful about what you call 'advanced'. Back when I first learnt the SLT form and then went on stage to demonstrate for my Sifu it was suggested by the general WCK population that we were in touch with that what we were doing was too advanced, and to some it was unrecognizable as Wing Chun.

Of course, I had no idea what they were talking about because this was simply how I had learnt the form!! Now, after being outside the house for a while I have seen why it was thought of as advanced. I did learn the same too at the beginning, but it developed pretty quickly.

On a side note, we had a level by level learning process that literally changed the look and feel of the SLT but the methods themselves remained. My Sigung was a very proud Ip Man representative too, and although he had access to many other lineages and ideas, he insisted to his eldest students that all this knowledge was in Ip Mans Wing Chun. It just depends on how and when you learnt from him.

[Savi]

The hardware and the software of the system are intertwined. This means the exclusion of specific concepts/theories/principles will also affect the expression of the forms.

The shapes, structures, and mechanics are defined by the HFY Sup Ming Dim and the HFY Formula. The HFY Sup Ming Dim and the HFY Formula are two different things, but one cannot be done without the other.

The use of the term "Advanced" with regard to HFY's SNT form references the comprehensive system approach of the art, as opposed to a less stringent san sau format for training. HFY's Advanced SNT form is an accurate reflection of the more extensive training layers of the art. While the general public will be unfamiliar with it, it is what it is. Back in 2007 I had the pleasure of demonstrating it to a small Wing Chun group in Europe at a restaurant, and upon comparing their form to HFY's the response was well received.

[LoneTiger108]

The shapes, structures, and mechanics are defined by the HFY Sup Ming Dim and the HFY Formula.

I have heard this mentioned before in HFY but what does it translate as? 10 Bright Points? Or something similar? And the HFY Formula?

Obviously I don't expect an in depth answer here, just a simple overview would be good for me to get to grips with.

I was taught a 10 level method of training Wing Chun.

Back in 2007 I had the pleasure of demonstrating it to a small Wing Chun group in Europe at a restaurant, and upon comparing their form to HFY's the response was well received.

It's always good to find some impressionable students, as I too have had many encounters like this in my own Flystudio and beyond. I view the experiences as good for both parties. I like to know what people have, and show what I do too and as long as people have an open mind and patience to listen to explanations I have never had a bad exchange yet!

[Savi]

Yes, HFY Sup Ming Dim (红花義十明點) means Red Flower Righteous Ten Bright Points. Nice aim there! It refers to the geometric mapping of the human skeleton in accordance with and consideration for each of the three dimensions of space. 3 points for height, 5 for width, and 2 for depth. Each point of reference coincides with the human form.

The HFY Wing Chun Formula defines the parameters of our "mode of operations" for reading the values of Time Space and Energy. As published in the Mastering Kung Fu book, there are 6 components:

1. Centerline Theory
2. Two Line Defense
3. Three Reference Points
4. Four Gate Heaven Human Earth
5. Five Line Theory
6. Six Gate Tien Yan Dei

Each of these components contain additional sub/supporting concepts and theories which in my view are essential for having intrinsic knowledge of the science and a sharp ability for reading the values of Time Space and Energy.

[Wayfaring]

I have heard this mentioned before in HFY but what does it translate as? 10 Bright Points? Or something similar? And the HFY Formula?

Obviously I don't expect an in depth answer here, just a simple overview would be good for me to get to grips with.

These are taught at SNT level in conjunction with "box theory" - aka "inside the box" and "outside the box". The idea being that at the first level you learning to control your own space and structure. Points are aligned so you are not collapsed in on yourself in engagements and you have structure and alignment. These are applied to the SNT form as well as 2 man drills to ingrain the body responses correctly. Just my added .02 perception.

[Savi]

Well stated!

[kentchang]

More on Hung Gun Biu from a recent HFY article that is going to appear in the latest issue of Kung Fu Magazine:

http://hfy108.com/forums/showthread....0906#post20906

Thumbs up! Thank you for the article.

[Savi]

On behalf of Grandmaster Garrett Gee and the HFY Pai, the first official video by the World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association. The following footage of HFY's Advanced Siu Nim Tau form was recorded on November 11th, 2011 during the HFY Chi Sao Public Workshop held at the Hung Fa Kwoon of Tempe/Phoenix AZ. It is representative of the system approach to Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen training, reflecting the many subjects and layers of training within.

Please enjoy the video and feel free to leave any comments and/or questions.

Link: Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen 红花義詠春拳 - Advanced Siu Nim Tau Form

[Marcelo-RJ]

Savi,

Yours and Eric's direct and sincere answers were more enlightening to me and some of my Brazilian brothers than you guys will ever realize.

Now that GM Gee allowed the HFY system to be appreciated by outsiders and provided us and the next generations with a visual record of HFY WC, I really feel inspired to practice the little I know of this Art with the enthusiasm that I once experienced.

Thank you so much, brother.

[kentchang]

http://hfy108.com/forums/showthread....ed=1#post20919
Hung Fa Yi and TWC Siu Nim Tau demo

http://vimeo.com/35817461

Hello there, I was very impressed with the intensity and complexity of the HFY Siu Nim Tau I hope you guys do well with your system of WCK.

[Savi]

Thank you for taking a few minutes of your time to watch the videos and share your thoughts. We have been receiving a lot of positive feedback from the videos from other areas, and already a few hundred views in the first three days.

[Wayfaring]

Thank you for taking a few minutes of your time to watch the videos and share your thoughts. We have been receiving a lot of positive feedback from the videos from other areas, and already a few hundred views in the first three days.

The video is great - very thankful for the detail in the forms as well as the direct comparison to TWC side by side.

Much thanks to Sifu Garrett Gee for letting this be posted out.

[Eric_H]

Actually, for my 2c the video is pretty bad looking, I really wish it could have come out better. But sometimes "better" is the enemy of "good enough." At least this way people can get a glimpse of what the HFY Siu Nim Tao looks like.

Big thanks to Sifu Dale for letting us film him and just showing us the TWC form - I really hadn't seen it up until he performed it that day.

[Savi]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the video. To me it's more than enough to show people what it looks like.