History of WCK: Tan Sau Ng

[TAYLOR1]

I think people can see that HFY and TWC are different. They are both wing chun but separate systems, which is easy to see in the video.

Thanks to GM Gee to allow HFY to be shared with more people. I think this video gives more people a chance to see HFY Advanced SNT for themselves.

[JPinAZ]

Actually, for my 2c the video is pretty bad looking, I really wish it could have come out better. But sometimes "better" is the enemy of "good enough." At least this way people can get a glimpse of what the HFY Siu Nim Tao looks like.

Big thanks to Sifu Dale for letting us film him and just showing us the TWC form - I really hadn't seen it up until he performed it that day.

Yeah, I'd agree with eric, it wasn't the best clip that could have been made. But then, this video was filmed spur of the moment without a lot of thought toward the production side. It was nice having Sifu Dale from TWC present to demonstrate his SNT for everyone since most in attendance hadn't seen it. When one of the students with a camera suggested filming it next to our own SNT, GM Gee gave it the go ahead and here you have it!

There are other professional/higher production HFY specific videos currently in the works which will will be shared on HFY websites in the near future which will also be more application oriented. But this is a good example of HFY SNT form for a quick/first clip

[Peter-Malave]

Hi Savi! Thank you for taking time out of your family visit to come out and meet me. I am thoroughly impressed with how much knowledge is in Hung Fa Yi and thank you for taking the time to show me some things. Hung Fa Yi is very practical and to the point. As you put it, "Hung Fa Yi gets to the heart of the matter!" with no indecision and leaves your opponent with nowhere to run. With what little I could do, I got your message loud and clear about when to stick and when to hit! Thanks for being nice to me!

It is fascinating to see the whole form. You did mention it is a lot to take in, and now I can see why you only performed the first section for me! But I definitely see what you explained about HFY's Wing Chun Formula, at least in section one.

I would have insisted on meeting up again during your stay but I know you had plans with your family. Dinner will always be my treat!

I went ahead and found the new issue from Kung Fu Magazine and I really enjoy your Sifu's writings, it is quite excellent and wonderful work on the artwork! You mentioned Hung Gun Biu was a great contributor to your art. Can you share more about the Eight Battle Arrays or the old warrior training methods you mentioned?

I will keep my schedule open for your next visit, and thank you again.

[Peter-Malave]

Savi did show me a bit of Hung Fa Yi's Five Tan Sau defenses. What stood out the most was the conceptual approach to fighting. My understanding of what Savi explained is that the concepts translate into a very unique sense of awaremess for your surroundings. My awareness of my personal space is different from how Hung Fa Yi defines space, and because of that my reactions are different from how a Hung Fa Yi guy will react to stimuli. The schools I have been to in the Chicagoland area don't come anywhere near what I learned in the 3 hours spent with Savi. Kudos to the Hung Fa Yi family.

[JPinAZ]

Savi did show me a bit of Hung Fa Yi's Five Tan Sau defenses. What stood out the most was the conceptual approach to fighting. My understanding of what Savi explained is that the concepts translate into a very unique sense of awaremess for your surroundings. My awareness of my personal space is different from how Hung Fa Yi defines space, and because of that my reactions are different from how a Hung Fa Yi guy will react to stimuli. The schools I have been to in the Chicagoland area don't come anywhere near what I learned in the 3 hours spent with Savi. Kudos to the Hung Fa Yi family.

Hi Peter, thanks for sharing your input!
Where in Chicago are you? I will be there next month if you'd like to meet up! I'm also planning to meet another WC'r while I'm there, so would be cool to all get together.
Can PM me if you'd like and I'll send you my contact info.

[Peter-Malave]

I'm out in the DeKalb area. Yeah, I know not much out there. Can you or any of the Hung Fa Yi guys tell me more on my questions? I would ask on hfy108 but I forgot my password. I think it got reset when they upgraded their forum software.

[Savi]

Hey Pete it was a true pleasure to reconnect with you. Portillo's is one of my FAVORITE places to eat there, but in no way shape or form do I miss the cold weather! Haha! Next time we have to hit Gino's East Pizza (deep dish style!).

Here is an excerpt from an essay I did on HFY's Eight Battle Steps:

Throughout his years in the secret societies he taught his soldiers general combat applications (saan sau method) from what he called Hung Fa Kuen (红花拳), as in Red Flower Boxing, for purposes of practicality. Grandmaster "Hung Gun Biu" Chu Tien Jow (朱天就) drew from his expertise of Wing Chun to improve upon his men's fighting skills. He is also credited for devising HFY's fighting method for multiple attacker engagements called "Bai Jong Baat Bo Jin" (擺樁八步戰法). This strategy involves the use of five body methods and four hand techniques to which all are derived from spear fighting methods. Being skilled in the fundamentals of moving forward, backward, turning, rotating, and side stepping, with certain hand techniques, are pivotal for centerline fighting in a 360' environment.

擺 - Bai: lay, display, or state clearly
樁 - Jong: stake, pile
八 - Baat: eight
步 - Bo: step, pace
戰 - Zin: war, fighting, battle, contend
法 - Faat: Method

This part of HFY's training is typically done at the intermediate stage of development called Chum Kiu. The "old warrior" reference was in regards to our footwork. The functionality of HFY's method of raising the knee to advance on center and/or cover the lower zone, plus picking up the knee to rotate/turn the body to one edge is inherent in all of the footworks within HFY's Eight Battle Steps. This method of stepping points back to HFY's Occupy Space concept and Heaven Human Earth concept which illustrates how to travel from point A to point B safely.

I still have yet to get the latest KF Mag issue but I'll try to find it during my lunch! Thanks for the comps and I will pass it on to my Sifus!

[JPinAZ]

I'm out in the DeKalb area. Yeah, I know not much out there. Can you or any of the Hung Fa Yi guys tell me more on my questions? I would ask on hfy108 but I forgot my password. I think it got reset when they upgraded their forum software.

Hi Peter, sure, I have no problem answer questions! But first, can you share a little of your background so I have an idea of your experience? This way I have a better understanding of a common ground to start from.
How long have you been training WC, and where have you trained? I see you mentioned some schools in the chicago area, which lineages have you studied in and how did your previous training differ from what Savi showed you?

Oh hey, were you interested in meeting up when I'm up that way? I think it would be cool if we could get a group together to compare ideas and train a little since my friend Sam and I will already be meeting sometime during my visit! (sam lives just south of Chicago)

[Peter-Malave]

Thanks JPin. What is your name, if you don’t mind me asking? Are you Jonathan_AZ over on hfy108?

I don’t have any Wing Chun experience. I’ve done kickboxing in the 80’s, been in a few street fights in my “hay day”, and funny as it sounds I was an art teacher. I used to be in Joliet but after losing my house two years ago I moved out to DeKalb/Sycamore for a new job which is a bit over an hour drive under normal conditions. I haven't trained at any academy/school for a long time, but I "keep up" if you know what I mean.

There aren’t any Wing Chun schools where I live and the closest one is in West Chicago. I stopped by there but didn't care for what was offered. Savi was kind enough to answer a lot of my questions on HFY’s Center Line Theory whom I was very intrigued by Mario Bava’s posts on hfy108 years back.

What Savi showed me that is different from my prior training is well, everything. He did use a lot of the terminology at first, but he followed it up with English translations and then just spoke generally. He shared with me the backstory of Tan Sau Ng, some bits of the Hung Fa Yi formula, and different ways to step. His ability to ground himself and still move is remarkable. I mean the guy is like cat. I was impressed with his ability to focus and not get “distracted” by my hands or fakes, yet when he moved I literally had nothing. It’s hard to explain what he did but even when he wasn’t touching me I felt like I was in trouble. Kind of like staring at a tiger when you know you’re defenseless. Mind you, I’ve got about 20-30lbs on him (good eating) and I’ve been around the block if you know what I mean, but he’s a pretty solid fellow for a young guy with a lot of patience. He has a very stand up and engaging type of good old Midwestern hospitality which is becoming harder to find around here. I’m not trying to inflate his ego but the Hung Fa Yi family should be proud to have him.

I gotta see what March looks like for me and my new job. I’ll send you a pm with my number/email in the near future.

Thanks,
Pete.

[Savi]

Commentary by Sifu Tyease Deon Hampton-Brooks regarding HFY Advanced SNT Form:

You know...I have to thank you again for the privilege for seeing the SLT and it's advance skill from the video as allowed by GM Gee. In a world of ridicule and constant judgment, even though the same people would say God could ONLY judge them, it takes much courage to have a video, edit, and place it out there for all open eyes.

As I am not HFYWCK, I have studied other systems in my lifetime; Hung Gar Kuen, Ip Man Tong Wing Chun, Phoenix Fist, and others, I can see skills that can be done if using each posture. I may never know the true essence of how you guys describe the way you keep your WCK efficient, however, I can notice the essence of true skill. Thank everyone for me. I may be defiant against many other systems; I am humble towards this one

Thank you Sifu Tyease, I have passed along your message to my Sifus.