Wing Chun Weapons

[Vajramusti]

I would not live in such a nation.

I feel for anyone who has to deal with not being able to defend themselves against criminals who care nothing for the law and use it to commit crimes.

Self defense is a human right.

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Dunno. The UK has it's problems. But on the whole except for political terrorism there appears to be less serious violence in the UK-truer in Canada than in urban centers in the US today. Still- I prefer and choose to be and am an American. Despite problems there is still sufficent
protections from the Bill of Rights and tolerance for diversity. Greatest dangers are from autos.

[GlennR]

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Dunno. The UK has it's problems. But on the whole except for political terrorism there appears to be less serious violence in the UK-truer in Canada than in urban centers in the US today. Still- I prefer and choose to be and am an American. Despite problems there is still sufficent
protections from the Bill of Rights and tolerance for diversity. Greatest dangers are from autos.

Personally, i dont get the whole "allowed to carry a gun" thing. Im in Australia where its illegal, and nobody does, and our national homicide rate is around 60-80 a year

It works and i dont see an argument against it

[Vajramusti]

Personally, i dont get the whole "allowed to carry a gun" thing. Im in Australia where its illegal, and nobody does, and our national homicide rate is around 60-80 a year

It works and i dont see an argument against it

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Glenn- I agree but the National Rifle Association is one of the most powerful lobbyists on the planet.
And, American gun culture is very deeply embedded. In Arizona where I live- the Colt .45
is part of the state's symbols including flowers etc.

In my neighborhood for over 26 years I know of no one who has had to use a gun against a criminal- but my teenaged lawn mowing guy was shot to death by a class mate with easy access to guns -a 100 yards from my house. An estranged girl friend was shot to death by her ex friend
50 yards from my house..he then shot himself a 100 yards from my house.And in Tucson where I used to live Congresswoman Gabby Gifford was shot and very badly injured by an unbalanced individual with easy access to guns.The gunman killed and injured several other people at the scene.

But- then as I quote ( in a manuscript) the late Rafael Sabbatini's famous opening lines in his adventure novel Scaramouche.. "he was born witha gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad"!!

[WingChunABQ]

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Dunno. The UK has it's problems. But on the whole except for political terrorism there appears to be less serious violence in the UK-truer in Canada than in urban centers in the US today. Still- I prefer and choose to be and am an American. Despite problems there is still sufficent
protections from the Bill of Rights and tolerance for diversity. Greatest dangers are from autos.

A good friend of mine, an American, went to graduate school in York. He admitted to me a certain stereotype of the British as being effete and delicate. He was shocked at the level of street violence he encountered. Street brawls and general acrimony were almost a daily occurance there, he said, owing to copious amounts of daily alcohol consumption and large groups of unemployed, bored youth.

Seems like a pretty good place to know Wing Chun.

On the other hand, the possibility that an opponent in an American street fight has a gun or knife hidden on his person or in his car nearby helps, I think, mitigate the frequency of fist fights, even if it does exacerbate the consequences.

Solution: carry a pair of butterfly swords on your hip. People will think you're too insane to mess with.

[GlennR]

Glenn- I agree but the National Rifle Association is one of the most powerful lobbyists on the planet.

Yep, even down here we know about the NRA

And, American gun culture is very deeply embedded. In Arizona where I live- the Colt .45
is part of the state's symbols including flowers etc.

Sure, but the Whit Australia policy was embeddedcin Australia for decades and we have moved on from that.

In my neighborhood for over 26 years I know of no one who has had to use a gun against a criminal- but my teenaged lawn mowing guy was shot to death by a class mate with easy access to guns -a 100 yards from my house. An estranged girl friend was shot to death by her ex friend
50 yards from my house..he then shot himself a 100 yards from my house.And in Tucson where I used to live Congresswoman Gabby Gifford was shot and very badly injured by an unbalanced individual with easy access to guns.The gunman killed and injured several other people at the scene.

And id suggest its due to the ease of gun procurement.

But- then as I quote ( in a manuscript) the late Rafael Sabbatini's famous opening lines in his adventure novel Scaramouche.. "he was born witha gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad"!!

He got that right

[anerlich]

Actually, we've had a spate of drive-by shootings in Oz recently where citizens carrying loaded guns is illegal. Probably insignificant by US standards, and restricted to career criminals, but still, worrying.

Can't see myself that arming the populace would reduce rather than increase the likelihood of getting shot.

Good luck if you get stopped anywhere in OZ carrying dusters or a straight razor. A guy who briefly trained with us before my instructor asked him to leave after a couple of weird incidents, including stalking a female student, got fined $1500 for carrying a blade.

At least choose a weapon you can fabricate a plausible excuse for carrying so the cops at least might think you have a few brain cells. Carry a combat folder in a toolbox or a straight razor with shaving cream and aftershave. If you want to pack a baseball bat, take a glove and ball with you as well. Duster? forget it.

[anerlich]

Greatest dangers are from autos.

Yep. The CDC also said something like you being 100000 times more likely to die of lifestyle related heart disease than from a violent assault. Something to think about when considering your training goals.

And cars make awesome weapons. You can carry one legally almost anywhere in the world.

[Lee Chiang Po]

South Africa seems to have a problem that pales the US. Crime is rampant here. Rampant does not really say it. It was finally realized that the constitution, the law, law enforcement, whatever, can not protect you. They can seek justice and in a few cases might be able to find it. Don't seem like it would really matter to you at that point though. You have to protect yourself. When it is understood that anyone you come up on is probably packing, you will be far less likely to try to take his lunch money. In places where concealed carry has been passed, the violent crimes against people has actually dropped. In areas where guns are illegal to own, the rate is very high. You will not see criminals turning in their guns simply because it is illegal.
In places where I cold not carry a knife or knuckles I simply carried a bunch of half dollars. Don't see those much any more though. They are heavy, and just the right size for throwing. I had about 50 bucks in half dollars and would spend endless hours throwing them at a 3 inch hole in a sheetrock wall. You can drop someone with a single coin. I also played with them and could roll 1 of them with each hand at the same time.

[Jake104]

Doctors kill more people per year than guns do.

Doctors: (A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.

Guns: (A) There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. (B) There are 1,500 accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups. (C) The percentage of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.0000188.

Statistically, then, doctors are 9,000 times more dangerous to the public health than gun owners. Fact: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. Following the logic of liberals, we should all be warned: "Guns don't kill people. Doctors do."

And here's what the Brits think of gun control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdBx...e_gdata_player

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2
* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.3
* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7
* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.8 Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as "Saturday Night Specials."
B. Concealed carry laws help reduce crime

* Nationwide: one-half million self-defense uses. Every year, as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home.9
* Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:
* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%;10 and
* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.11
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission... without paying a fee... or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union -- having three times received the "Safest State Award."12
* Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.13 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. 14
* Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder.

[Jimbo]

Traditionally, many CMA masters carried some type(s) of hidden weapon(s) on them.

Some attempts at weapon control are plain stup!d. I heard that in one nation, they were trying to pass a law that kitchen knives not be allowed to have points, so that people could not use them to stab. They would also set up stations where 'good citizens' could drop off their knives to be destroyed. As if that would make any difference in the crime rate, knife-related or otherwise! Does anyone really think that criminals will turn in their knives (or guns)?

Also, people should understand that in the U.S., it's not the same everywhere. Except for some states, unless you are deemed to have a very good reason (professionally, etc.), it's not easy to get a CCW permit.

[Treznor]

A good friend of mine, an American, went to graduate school in York. He admitted to me a certain stereotype of the British as being effete and delicate. He was shocked at the level of street violence he encountered. Street brawls and general acrimony were almost a daily occurance there, he said, owing to copious amounts of daily alcohol consumption and large groups of unemployed, bored youth.

Seems like a pretty good place to know Wing Chun.

On the other hand, the possibility that an opponent in an American street fight has a gun or knife hidden on his person or in his car nearby helps, I think, mitigate the frequency of fist fights, even if it does exacerbate the consequences.

Solution: carry a pair of butterfly swords on your hip. People will think you're too insane to mess with.

There's quite a few places like that... I live in a town called Burnley (about 20-25 miles from Manchester which is supposedly the most violent place in the UK) and we also seem to have a reputation for having more than our fair share of nutters.

Having said that, I've only ever had 1 bit of aggro (a single punch each for me and a mate... which was years ago and well before I started training VT) in all the time I've been going out around here...

Having said that, one of the reasons I started training is because I have this feeling that one day I'm gonna spout off at the wrong person and I'd rather know how to handle myself if worst comes to worst.

[WingChunABQ]

@Treznor - My friend seemed to say this was the trend in Britain. A coworker of mine from Yorkshire said as much as well. Pub culture seems to be the culprit.

I think it makes an excellent case for continuing the heritage of learning unarmed martial arts.

As for where I'm from in the U.S., there are plenty of morons with guns and knives and the possibility that they'll pull one on you should things get less than civil changes the equation a bit. It's made me emphasize certain things in my training such as prepping for group fights (turning stances/chum kiu concepts), staying up off the ground (a defense against Girlfriend with a Knife), disabling maneuvers (arm breaks are nice), and the very effective Stay The Hell Out of Dangerous Situations form.

It seems that training the WC weapons then is great preperation for improvised weapons. I may not carry the BJD with me where ever I go, but I might be able to find a stick or a bottle. We can be armed while being unarmed, is what I'm getting at.

[Treznor]

While I agree fully with 'general trend' comment, it's usually easy to avoid any trouble just by avoiding certain areas.

It seems to me (both from personal observation and stories from other people) that the worst spots tend to be the 'trendy' pubs... I suppose this could come down to being because they're full of young(ish) lads drinking as much as they can as quickly as they can...

I've always tended to stay away from these sorts of places and usually go to rock bars / old **** bars... not just to avoid trouble but because I actually prefer them... And as a bonus, the clientelle just seems SO much better.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I've actually only been doing VT since last August so have yet to test my effectiveness in a real situation (and since I've only been hit once since I left school (13 years ago ), it COULD be some time before I do get the chance).

Mat

[Treznor]

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Dunno. The UK has it's problems. But on the whole except for political terrorism there appears to be less serious violence in the UK-truer in Canada than in urban centers in the US today. Still- I prefer and choose to be and am an American. Despite problems there is still sufficent
protections from the Bill of Rights and tolerance for diversity. Greatest dangers are from autos.

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask...

Are you seriously saying that, if you were born and bred in a country with strict gun / weapon control, you would emigrate just so you could carry weaponry?

OR

You find your perfect job paying 3 times your current salary / love of your life but have to move to a country / state where carrying weapons is illegal... Would you seriously turn it / her / him down for this reason?

[LoneTiger108]

@Treznor - My friend seemed to say this was the trend in Britain. A coworker of mine from Yorkshire said as much as well. Pub culture seems to be the culprit.

Hmmm obviously your friends think that Yorkshire is the hub of the UK for trends in drunken violence but I don't think so. It is however the birthplace of the Conservative Party, so hey ho! It is 'used' a little in the crime statistical battle we seem to be facing here everyday. I live in London so it's probably a little different.

I will disagree about the Pub Culture being the culprit for armed violence. Do you know the difference between a price for a pint in the pub and in the supermarket?? Do you think the pubs actively sell alcohol to kids under 18? Because it is within this demographic you are using as an example.

Our young London hoodies get their drinks cheap and from older friends/family and they hang around wherever they can because there is no activity offered to them like in the older glory days of the local Boxing Gyms and Youth centres! They wouldn't be seen dead in a pub because of the cost alone, just as they wouldn't buy music and DVDs in a 'shop'!