Bodybuilding makes you slow and...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hi sanjuro ronin,

This is a clip of a 17 year old Lee Priest with his mom. What do you think? He looked like an amazing natural freak to me. For anyone who looks that good clean to have to use roids to step it up for competition is a serious blow to bodybuilding. Somebody has to stand strong and say that this is not the way to do things. And it slowly beginning to happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MYGP95guo


mickey

Lee uses steroids, he has admitted as much.
All pro BB use them and more of course.
As we know, PED are a mainstay of professional sports athletes and the reason is quite simple:
Those that train more are in better condition to compete and PED allow you to do just that.
That said I am 100% AGAINST them.
That a genetic freak like Lee had to do them is not surprising since ALL of the elite pro BB ARE genetic freaks as well AND they are on PED.
If one wants to compete at the elite level then one must do what they are doing.

Now, do ALL pro athletes use PED? I don't think so.
Do all the elite level ones? I don't think so either.
EX: I don't think Anderson Silva uses PED.
But I do believe that ALL the high level strength athletes ( and this includes BB) do use PED.
Why? because the performance they turn out on a REGULAR and CONSISTENT level on the schedule they are.
No way they can do that without PED.

[MightyB]

Bodybuilding vs Strength Training reminds me so much of TCMA vs MMA

Sorry guys - don't have any good kindling to start a flame war - you should search for Frost's and my epic battle on this very same subject. It was a fun one and one of the few where I got burnt a bit

My keyboard fu needs practice!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bodybuilding vs Strength Training reminds me so much of TCMA vs MMA

Sorry guys - don't have any good kindling to start a flame war - you should search for Frost's and my epic battle on this very same subject. It was a fun one and one of the few where I got burnt a bit

My keyboard fu needs practice!

In some ways it is and in some ways it isn't.
BB certainly is a TYPE of ST, but the building of strength is a byproduct of the primary goal, which is physical development.
ST is not just the development of raw strength but all types of strength:
Explosive strength - Olympic lfits
Raw strength - powerlifting
Endurance strength
The combination of the above - strongman contests
Strength and muscle developement - Bodybuilding
Etc...

[Frost]

Hi Frost,

If you read my initial post, it was in reference to the use of the term "bodybuilder?". It is not a positive word anymore.


mickey

maybe not to you, but neither is strongman to alot of people for the very same reasons

[wenshu]

As with all things internet this argument excludes the middle.

The obvious implied reference from the original post is the oft cited fallacy that strength training is somehow deleterious to gong fu.

Any one with any common sense whatsoever can see this for the hogwash it is. At its most simplified and basic level gong fu IS strength training. However the backlash to the aforementioned nonsense involves over compensating and trying to justify methods that are in fact a hindrance.

It doesn't make sense for a fighter to invest the time and energy into extreme hypertrophy that would be better spent on training actual fighting skills and staying power. More muscle mass means more blood volume needed to provide that increased mass with O2 thus needlessly taxing the heart.

Does body building make you slow and inflexible? No, not training makes you slow and inflexible. However, hypertrophy protocols are far from ideal for someone training for three 5 minute rounds.

[dirtyrat]

As with all things internet this argument excludes the middle.

The obvious implied reference from the original post is the oft cited fallacy that strength training is somehow deleterious to gong fu.

Any one with any common sense whatsoever can see this for the hogwash it is. At its most simplified and basic level gong fu IS strength training. However the backlash to the aforementioned nonsense involves over compensating and trying to justify methods that are in fact a hindrance.

It doesn't make sense for a fighter to invest the time and energy into extreme hypertrophy that would be better spent on training actual fighting skills and staying power. More muscle mass means more blood volume needed to provide that increased mass with O2 thus needlessly taxing the heart.

Does body building make you slow and inflexible? No, not training makes you slow and inflexible. However, hypertrophy protocols are far from ideal for someone training for three 5 minute rounds.

well said!

[sanjuro_ronin]

As with all things internet this argument excludes the middle.

The obvious implied reference from the original post is the oft cited fallacy that strength training is somehow deleterious to gong fu.

Any one with any common sense whatsoever can see this for the hogwash it is. At its most simplified and basic level gong fu IS strength training. However the backlash to the aforementioned nonsense involves over compensating and trying to justify methods that are in fact a hindrance.

It doesn't make sense for a fighter to invest the time and energy into extreme hypertrophy that would be better spent on training actual fighting skills and staying power. More muscle mass means more blood volume needed to provide that increased mass with O2 thus needlessly taxing the heart.

Does body building make you slow and inflexible? No, not training makes you slow and inflexible. However, hypertrophy protocols are far from ideal for someone training for three 5 minute rounds.

With this common sense, no wonder you are not welcomed in the wing chun forum !

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lets just put an end to the argument right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM6vZ...eature=related

[Hebrew Hammer]

I believe this probably where its at for the combination of martial benefit and strength training...hell I wish this training was around when I was playing football...incredible functional, explosive, mixed in with cardio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzD9B...EMJPez2L45250P

I'm still evaluating the whole kettle bell thing...my back starts crying every time I look at it. Otherwise I'm sure its an awesome work out.

[wenshu]

I believe this probably where its at for the combination of martial benefit and strength training...hell I wish this training was around when I was playing football...incredible functional, explosive, mixed in with cardio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzD9B...EMJPez2L45250P

I'm still evaluating the whole kettle bell thing...my back starts crying every time I look at it. Otherwise I'm sure its an awesome work out.

Did you really hate playing football?

Take every single one of your accomplishments on the field of play and go ahead and throw them all away. For good measure add a chronic, debilitating shoulder/lower back/achilles injury. That is exactly what Crossfit would give you.

[Neeros]

I want to see a sports team enhanced by genuine Qigong.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Did you really hate playing football?

Take every single one of your accomplishments on the field of play and go ahead and throw them all away. For good measure add a chronic, debilitating shoulder/lower back/achilles injury. That is exactly what Crossfit would give you.

Are you speaking from experience? Actually Football screwed me up quite a bit on its own, my second year of Jr College ball, I had constant 'stingers' every game...I ended up with a hairline fracture of one of my vertebra's and the constant hitting with my head had caused my equilibrium to be completely altered and had to do extensive physical rehab.

The one thing that I was extremely grateful for was the flexibility training that I learned at a 'speed' clinic I attended in High School, basically taught by this track coach, I was one of the most flexible players on the team and I attributed it greatly to almost having no significant leg injuries in the 8 years of football. When I took up CLF, my sifu spent a significant amount of class probably a half hour (2 hr classes) on flexibility and warm up stretching exercises. I found them to be invaluable, they increase your athleticism maybe that's not the right world but I'm tired...in my opinion and also contribute to feeling 'fit'.

Back then we did mostly a power lifter weight training work out...squats, bench, power cleans and shoulder presses...of which the power cleans were the only real transferable lifts to playing football. From what I've seen on TV, I think today's players have a much better training and lifting programs.

[Kevin73]

Not stretching makes you not flexible. Talk to a guy who sits at a desk all day and doesn't do any stretching and he probably can't touch his own toes. It has nothing to do with bodybuilding.

I hate arguments like this saying something is "bad" and making a blanket statement.

Yes, bodybuilding could be bad if you don't train properly, but so can every other type of training out there if not done properly or taken to extremes.

[SavvySavage]

Truth be told I wouldn't fuk with a guy who was popping out of his shirt no matter how slow he may or may not be. I've see power lifters and body builders at gyms. They are both scary looking in their own way. I'm too puny to body build so I focus on getting stronger.

[dirtyrat]

anything's possible.

a buddy of mine, short fella and pretty average looking back in high school, got into bodybuilding sometime after high school and won a few competitions. now he's a trainer at a local gym.