Chum Kiu

[k gledhill]

See the problem is this...Your confusing Chi Sau with gor sau or actually sparring. Chum Kiu is simply a form which gives you techniques to practice in the air that can be broken down into drills against compliant partner until your muscle memory becomes natural and your ready to intergrate it into freestyle sparring where anything goes not just WC...

Chi Sau is a compliant drill that your partner does with you to teach you how to use certain elements of WC when you have a bridge,sticking to your opponent are attempting to take the centerline or control his structure. it teaches you how to control his structure, centerline, and bridge. Thats what chi sau builds. it allows you to learn to relax when your toe to toe and get use to sliding through some ones defenses and manipulating their structure to your advantage...Chi Sau is simply a drill...A Bridge to real sparring...

Only in sparring can you truly realize the truth...


But before we get their your Video you post are not real sparring...they are compliant drills where two people are vibing for the center and trying occupy the same space ie both are bridging or trying to bridge. Only the dominant one controls the bridge nullfying the others bridge. You want to prevent your opponent from sticking to you. But at the same time you woant to stick to him so you can control his centre.

Your clip is your teacher actually taking his opponents centre and controlling his structure. All the while he does so while maintaining a constant bridge by Faan Sau.



Wing Chun Not bridging or Sticking Clip

Wing Chun Bridging and Sticking Clip


Can you understand the difference?

When I punch an you throw your arms up I am going to gain contact with your arms ie bridge. if you strike an i intercept or cut off your punch with a bil sau i have a bridge. But as I bridge im striking you back at the same time right? Everytime you get in striking range I bridge. Everytime I get in striking range I bridge. Sticking is simply staying close to your opponent the way a Bee does or the way an aggressive street fighter does.

I strike while bridging...if there is no bridge to obstruct my strike i strike anyway...if you attack i bridge and strike. If you drop your hands i leak in an strike. The main thing is I want to keep any potential attacks nullify so as I gain entry i pak da or lop da to stop or immobilize your lead hand from striking me and also to disrupt you for a nano second. Allowing me to be ready for your power hand!

You really are confused Yoshiyahu... nothing to do with sticking, controlling, common misguided ideas, based of 'feel me follow you' chi-sao arm pressure chasers.

Until you have a lesson from a coach who knows the 'fighting' goals of VT, your views of chi-sao will ruin you.....

dont chase arms or seek bridges.

We dont fight with two extended arms either, I know ! crazy talk ; )

[Phil Redmond]

Pak sao does not make a bridge.....I dont want to stay holding an arm with pak sao....can you understand why?
I know your thinking is a more commercial mainstream sticky hand approach that requires excess trapping and controlling bridges because you lack certain fundamental ideas.
We don't x our own arms in VT.

In Southern Gung Fu styles of which Wing Chun is one. a bridge is created when any contact with a limb is made regardless of how long.

[k gledhill]

In Southern Gung Fu styles of which Wing Chun is one. a bridge is created when any contact with a limb is made regardless of how long.

We don't seek to make bridges...subtle.

[trubblman]

We don't seek to make bridges...subtle.

Nobody is saying THAT, Kevin. What you are reading and what I am saying and some others have said is that, whether seek to do so or not, the bridge is created. You dont have to consciously try and make the bridge, the bridge is made. I think your mistake is the word seeking. I have not used the word seeking or searching. The point is the bridge is made unless all you are doing is striking. If you are performing a pak sao, a jum sao, a bil sao and so on and so on you are making a bridge.

[k gledhill]

In Southern Gung Fu styles of which Wing Chun is one. a bridge is created when any contact with a limb is made regardless of how long.

Nobody is saying THAT, Kevin. What you are reading and what I am saying and some others have said is that, whether seek to do so or not, the bridge is created. You dont have to consciously try and make the bridge, the bridge is made. I think your mistake is the word seeking. I have not used the word seeking or searching. The point is the bridge is made unless all you are doing is striking. If you are performing a pak sao, a jum sao, a bil sao and so on and so on you are making a bridge.

If do a pak sao it is to prevent a bridge, a jum sao......a bong.
I am trying to just strike.
On another level I simply strike through attempts to bridge.

Subtle but profound change in fighting.

Trubblman your mind is fixed on bridging

[Phil Redmond]

You really are confused Yoshiyahu... nothing to do with sticking, controlling, common misguided ideas, based of 'feel me follow you' chi-sao arm pressure chasers.

Until you have a lesson from a coach who knows the 'fighting' goals of VT, your views of chi-sao will ruin you.....

dont chase arms or seek bridges.

We dont fight with two extended arms either, I know ! crazy talk ; )

I fight with two extended arms to make to opponent have to travel a longer distance to strike me. It's worked well for me against skilled opponents who were trying to knock me out. I'm not referring to bar fights or street fights but fights against famous full contact fighters in NYC back in the day. If you don't extend your arms then you're at the mercy of a boxer. In fact I was just in a pro boxing gym in Pennsauken, NJ talking about this same subject. One of the Pro boxers is Sifu Keith Mazza's Wing Chun student.

[trubblman]

If do a pak sao it is to prevent a bridge, a jum sao......a bong.
I am trying to just strike.
On another level I simply strike through attempts to bridge.

Subtle but profound change in fighting.

Trubblman your mind is fixed on bridging

But when you have pak sao you have just created a bridge.

[Phil Redmond]

We don't seek to make bridges...subtle.

Once you touch the arm you have a path to the face or body. Creating a bridge allows you to control the arm which controls the balance. So I guess you only go for strikes without checking the arms which I find to be VERY bad in a fight.

[k gledhill]

But when you have pak sao you have just created a bridge.

You have not me, our methods are ballistic to displace not hold hands.

[Phil Redmond]

The concept of creating a bridge isn't exclusive to Wing Chun. It's just common sense. Well, at least to people who fight. Theory can go anywhere. Fighting is the here and now.

[k gledhill]

I fight with two extended arms to make to opponent have to travel a longer distance to strike me. It's worked well for me against skilled opponents who were trying to knock me out. I'm not referring to bar fights or street fights but fights against famous full contact fighters in NYC back in the day. If you don't extend your arms then you're at the mercy of a boxer. In fact I was just in a pro boxing gym in Pennsauken, NJ talking about this same subject. One of the Pro boxers is Sifu Keith Mazza's Wing Chun student.

I have boxers as students, from gleasons....I don't use two arms extended.

[k gledhill]

Once you touch the arm you have a path to the face or body. Creating a bridge allows you to control the arm which controls the balance. So I guess you only go for strikes without checking the arms which I find to be VERY bad in a fight.

There are faster more efficient ways....

[trubblman]

Once you touch the arm you have a path to the face or body. Creating a bridge allows you to control the arm which controls the balance. So I guess you only go for strikes without checking the arms which I find to be VERY bad in a fight.

Agreed. Unless you and your opponent are out of range of one another but then you are not fighting until the gap is closed. Boxers dont have to worry about bridging because they utilize feints, bobs and weaves and angles and being able to take the punch.

[k gledhill]

Agreed. Unless you and your opponent are out of range of one another but then you are not fighting until the gap is closed. Boxers dont have to worry about bridging because they utilize feints, bobs and weaves and angles and being able to take the punch.

Kick boxers they don't like it. we have a longer leg than a jab, nearer the closest target with the closest weapon, use it often to stop kick harass, low kick.

[Phil Redmond]

I have had many fights.....

Kevin, are you referring to street fights and fights in clubs? If so, you don't need martial arts for those. As a former bouncer like you were I know that. I was referring to fighting against another martial artist who is trained and conditioned to fight. I don't count the fights I had in clubs against some guy who had a few too many since i had back up bouncers. I'm not diminishing the damage that a street fighter can do but for them I just pick up a stick, bottle, ash tray, keys to the eye or whatever. Have you ever fought '"skilled" fighters from other arts on a regular basis?