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Thread: Chinese Qin Na Submission

  1. #1
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    Chinese Qin Na Submission

    Sorry to drag this dead, rotting, lifeless corpse of a horse back into the light of day....BUT I thought some of you who may not have seen a few of these photos might like the interesting tid bit i found on the art of war site. Not sure if this has been posted here, but it is interesting. for the practitioners of shuai jiao here, are these images shown similar to the practice you have, or do you not practice these types of submissions in your shuai jiao ?? if not, here is the disconnect?

    http://www.artofwarfc.cn/?q=node/276



    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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    Sorry, that's not Chin na. Cleary it's BJJ. You TCMA guys need to stop claiming everything as TCMA when it's not.

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    Sorry, that's not Chin na. Cleary it's BJJ. You TCMA guys need to stop claiming everything as TCMA when it's not.
    if it was not used effectively in RAY PINA SANCTIONED fights its nothing more than pajama wearin lion dancing form performers. i thought you knew.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

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    you guys are silly.

    im hoping a few of the posters here that specialize in shuai jiao to comment.

    ive always been interested in shuai jiao, unfortunately its not available in my area. these pictures support the claim of shuai jiao and judo being very similar practices. the throwing aside, in such that judo does work on submissions like these.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  5. #5
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    "As a result, full contact Chinese martial arts suffered heavily as a result of the exodus of skilled instructors and practitioners."

    So the guys that knew how to fight took their knowledge to the rest of the world, like maybe Brasil? The US?
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    "As a result, full contact Chinese martial arts suffered heavily as a result of the exodus of skilled instructors and practitioners."

    So the guys that knew how to fight took their knowledge to the rest of the world, like maybe Brasil? The US?
    say it aint so!!
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    you guys are silly.

    im hoping a few of the posters here that specialize in shuai jiao to comment.

    ive always been interested in shuai jiao, unfortunately its not available in my area. these pictures support the claim of shuai jiao and judo being very similar practices. the throwing aside, in such that judo does work on submissions like these.
    there are al lot shuaijiao videos out there you could get. even on youtube.

    if you separate the techniques according to upper body & lower body techniques, it should make learning easier.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    Sorry to drag this dead, rotting, lifeless corpse of a horse back into the light of day....BUT I thought some of you who may not have seen a few of these photos might like the interesting tid bit i found on the art of war site. Not sure if this has been posted here, but it is interesting. for the practitioners of shuai jiao here, are these images shown similar to the practice you have, or do you not practice these types of submissions in your shuai jiao ?? if not, here is the disconnect?
    A better question to ask would be:

    For those of you who have used submission against other trained submission people, what is it about each of those submissions that make them impractical compared to the submissions used in BJJ, Sambo, and MMA and Judo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaceful Orchid View Post
    A better question to ask would be:

    For those of you who have used submission against other trained submission people, what is it about each of those submissions that make them impractical compared to the submissions used in BJJ, Sambo, and MMA and Judo?
    so of course this thread was started for the sake of discussion. from all angles. so do please, start that aspect of this discussion. i dont claim to have intimate knowledge of grappling and submissions, so you could start he ball rolling if you like, im sure others will chime in too. im a judo noob
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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    so for instance here:


    this RNC is definately sunk in deeper and instead of using the crook of hte elbow, the technique is pulled further down onto the forarm a bit. so the question is, is the technique loose just in that picture, or would that guy actually not be able to notice hes not sunk in tight enough? im inclined to think its just that picture. but i could be wrong as well.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaceful Orchid View Post
    A better question to ask would be:

    For those of you who have used submission against other trained submission people, what is it about each of those submissions that make them impractical compared to the submissions used in BJJ, Sambo, and MMA and Judo?
    How was it determined that the submissions in the photos are impractical compared to BJJ, Sambo, MMA and Judo?

    Maybe I don't understand your comment.
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    so of course this thread was started for the sake of discussion. from all angles. so do please, start that aspect of this discussion. i dont claim to have intimate knowledge of grappling and submissions, so you could start he ball rolling if you like, im sure others will chime in too. im a judo noob
    Image 1- Very little control of the opponent's body makes it very easy to escape.

    Image 2- Looks like the top guy is wrapping the opponent's head with his right arm which gives the opponent and easy opportunity to take his back.

    Image 3- Knees are apart and legs aren't down tightly controlling the opponent, making it easy to escape and hard to leverage a break on the elbow joint.

    Image 4- This is OK depending on what happens next. Better to control both arms of the opponent.

    Image 5- Can't finish the lock at that angle and the opponent has lots of room to escape.

    Image 6 & 7- Need to have control from the back with the legs. Without this the opponent can easily turn and make the choke into a simple head lock.

    Image 8 - Looks good, although it depends on what is going on the far side, which you can't see.

    Image 9- Hard to finish from that angle.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    so for instance here:


    this RNC is definately sunk in deeper and instead of using the crook of hte elbow, the technique is pulled further down onto the forarm a bit. so the question is, is the technique loose just in that picture, or would that guy actually not be able to notice hes not sunk in tight enough? im inclined to think its just that picture. but i could be wrong as well.
    The crook of the elbow is better. The most important thing is the control with the legs, though.

  14. #14
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    so another aspect to consider in regards to these photos. is that this is a very small hand ful of photos. im sure this is a pretty small representation of that persons training and understanding of grappling. we dont even know the context as they are stand alone photographs.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  15. #15
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    So far it sounds to me like learning from pictures (old or new) isn't the best way to learn these moves.

    Although as soon as you try them out I'm sure adjustments aren't too hard to figure out.
    Last edited by Yao Sing; 02-07-2012 at 12:29 PM.
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

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