When are we going to stop this?

[TenTigers]

nah, ya gotta bite a chunk out of his cheek, like Max Cady.
Of course he was doing it to a girl...

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is one effective biting spot and that will be the finger. If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers "off". Not only the pain and lost blood, the thinking that if he doesn't go to EM to reconnect his disconnected finger ASAP, he may lost it forever. That kind of thinking will take his combat desire away. He will worry about himself (rergain his lose finger) instead of worry about you (kill you). It's good strategy in life and death situation. It may not fit in in friendly sport environment.

If you bite a chunk of fresh off your opponent's arm or leg, his fresh will grow back. If you broke his elbow or knee, his broken joint will recover. If you bite your opponet's fingers off, it will not grow back. Not sure if ear or nose will grow back though?

Or you can go all "quest for fire" on them...

[David Jamieson]

A bite serves as a short sharp shock allowing you to move on to the next.

It shouldn't be regarded as anything else but that.

Unless you bit a mans throat full on...in which case, that might be a finishing move if you have a strong jaw and good teeth...

[Ray Pina]

A good Shuai Jiao practioner should be able to use his art against BJJ. The thing is, very few arts are going to be as good at submission work as BJJ. Maybe Sambo, true submission wrestling, a Judoka well schooled and trained in newaza, that type of thing. But since pretty much most BJJ focuses soley on ground work, positions, and subs it's hard to beat them at that game.

However, getting them to the ground should be the test. Most BJJ players don't have the wrestling and take down skills that a wrestler, judoka, or well trained Shuai Jiao guy has, and this should be what is worked. Many BJJ don't like going up against wrestlers. Why?? Because wrestlers control the pace, have great movement, are hard as hell to take down, and take you down in dominant position.

BJJ is a great style and has the best subs , but some of you that think it is the be all grappling style really need to get out more.

What you say is true and smart and that is so rare here so I wanted to let you know it's appreciated.

Personally, I like wrestlers because they don't like being on their back, and instead of securing a position, like half guard and work from there, they tend so squirm and give the back or other opportunities..... this of course is generalizing the reactions of non-figthing wrestlers.

Judo guys are tough. Not only because of the throws, they understand the grip game at a high level. They set things up from the very beginning. Very good at tugging on the collar. And they have a powerful ground game.

Sambo guys, in my experience, are sneaky little *******s.... and you have to watch for the ankle and knee locks. I like that about them. For 6 months all I did was take private lessons at Renzo's for leg locks.... because they told me they weren't allowed in while belt classes. I like to train the moves that work so well and cause so much damage they're illegal. People freak out. Tap..... or get hurt.

Not sure what the point of this is, but its good to know the strengths and tendencies of each style.... the weak part of non-figthing, non competing BJJers is that they are delicate...... they'll flinch when accidentally elbowed, catch a knee, head butt. etc. But most non-fighters and/or competitors will.

I honestly have to say, pound for pound, year to year, it's very hard to beat BJJ in a 1-to-1 match..... they change levels and get under striking. They take a strike to gain control for the take down.. Once down, its like fish out of water for the non BJJer.

BJJ is a great style. That's why endorse it. And I've been at places that place equal emphasis on self defense and others that are 100% training to roll and just roll factories.... which I like too.

Either way, BJJers should train some boxing or kick boxing the same way a boxer or kick boxer should train a little BJJ.

I would guess dedicated TCMAers who are comfortable with their hands, compete in San Da or kick boxing, eventually find their way to BJJ.... and then adding that go to MMA. It's natural.

This is not to say that MMA is better. It's just a more open environment..... fighters want to fight as unrestrained as possible. For their own freedom. And for knowing when they win they won against the others best.

What does this mean for Kung Fu?

I would think it means one of a few things:

Focus on what you do best.... focus on the trapping and sticking. Advertise that. Sell that.

But who would it draw? Fighters want to see proof. They want to see it work. They want to feel and test a technique.... it's their a$$ on the line.

So why would an MMAer go devote 10 years to walking in a circle when those who walk circle can't do what he does? But anyone can walk around and around..... well, they say the others don't walk round and round the right way? But what difference is the way around if both ways go nowhere..... no proof. no living example.

So the other way is to change:

To adapt new ways. But will you adapt BJJ better than the lifetime student who has 3 sons with schools? Maybe.

What about the hands? Do you need to change from stick and follow to create openings/angles? Can you do that better than boxing? Maybe.

[Lucas]

There is one effective biting spot and that will be the finger. If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers "off". Not only the pain and lost blood, the thinking that if he doesn't go to EM to reconnect his disconnected finger ASAP, he may lost it forever. That kind of thinking will take his combat desire away. He will worry about himself (rergain his lose finger) instead of worry about you (kill you). It's good strategy in life and death situation. It may not fit in in friendly sport environment.

If you bite a chunk of fresh off your opponent's arm or leg, his fresh will grow back. If you broke his elbow or knee, his broken joint will recover. If you bite your opponet's fingers off, it will not grow back. Not sure if ear or nose will grow back though?

my friend bit a guys ear off in a fight once when the clinch went to the ground. it had a very startling effect, the guy started freaking out, and then got the tar beat out of him along with is missing ear. my friend went to jail. but he wont that fight and got the girl.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

my friend bit a guys ear off in a fight once when the clinch went to the ground. it had a very startling effect, the guy started freaking out, and then got the tar beat out of him along with is missing ear. my friend went to jail. but he wont that fight and got the girl.

Was your friend this guy???

[Lucas]

dude i wish mike tyson was my friend!!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

What you say is true and smart and that is so rare here so I wanted to let you know it's appreciated.

Personally, I like wrestlers because they don't like being on their back, and instead of securing a position, like half guard and work from there, they tend so squirm and give the back or other opportunities..... this of course is generalizing the reactions of non-figthing wrestlers.

Judo guys are tough. Not only because of the throws, they understand the grip game at a high level. They set things up from the very beginning. Very good at tugging on the collar. And they have a powerful ground game.

Sambo guys, in my experience, are sneaky little *******s.... and you have to watch for the ankle and knee locks. I like that about them. For 6 months all I did was take private lessons at Renzo's for leg locks.... because they told me they weren't allowed in while belt classes. I like to train the moves that work so well and cause so much damage they're illegal. People freak out. Tap..... or get hurt.

Not sure what the point of this is, but its good to know the strengths and tendencies of each style.... the weak part of non-figthing, non competing BJJers is that they are delicate...... they'll flinch when accidentally elbowed, catch a knee, head butt. etc. But most non-fighters and/or competitors will.

I honestly have to say, pound for pound, year to year, it's very hard to beat BJJ in a 1-to-1 match..... they change levels and get under striking. They take a strike to gain control for the take down.. Once down, its like fish out of water for the non BJJer.

BJJ is a great style. That's why endorse it. And I've been at places that place equal emphasis on self defense and others that are 100% training to roll and just roll factories.... which I like too.

Either way, BJJers should train some boxing or kick boxing the same way a boxer or kick boxer should train a little BJJ.

I would guess dedicated TCMAers who are comfortable with their hands, compete in San Da or kick boxing, eventually find their way to BJJ.... and then adding that go to MMA. It's natural.

This is not to say that MMA is better. It's just a more open environment..... fighters want to fight as unrestrained as possible. For their own freedom. And for knowing when they win they won against the others best.

What does this mean for Kung Fu?

I would think it means one of a few things:

Focus on what you do best.... focus on the trapping and sticking. Advertise that. Sell that.

But who would it draw? Fighters want to see proof. They want to see it work. They want to feel and test a technique.... it's their a$$ on the line.

So why would an MMAer go devote 10 years to walking in a circle when those who walk circle can't do what he does? But anyone can walk around and around..... well, they say the others don't walk round and round the right way? But what difference is the way around if both ways go nowhere..... no proof. no living example.

So the other way is to change:

To adapt new ways. But will you adapt BJJ better than the lifetime student who has 3 sons with schools? Maybe.

What about the hands? Do you need to change from stick and follow to create openings/angles? Can you do that better than boxing? Maybe.

Ray,

You make some excellent points and your feedback is appreciated. I do agree that wrestlers, especially those not well versed in subs, tend to panic and dont like being on their back. This will cause them to often give up their back and set up the RNC. Also, wrestlers often expsose their head while shooting and get caught in guolitines.

I think it is important to spar/roll with as many people as you can, with varying experience as you can, most notably, those with experience that is more, better, and/or different than yours. This is one of the great training tools against stagnation and also puts a few more tools in the box so to speak.

As for BJJ, I'm certainly not as well versed as some but from what I generally see the novice and beginner divisions tend to go to the ground by any means necessary. If that means someone latching on and pulling guard at the start of the match, so be it. The more advanced divisions, being advanced no-gi or blue belt and above tend to not do this so much and set up the takedown so that they will be in dominate position on the ground, which I feel is very important.

I still feel that most BJJers do not have the takedown skill wrestlers and judokas have, but again there are always exceptions and since many are training both, it gets implemented and trained this way anyways.

One thing I think you have to consider, Ray, is that while your argument of many practitioner's training methods is valid and they could be doing more combat oriented drilling, the simple truth is most people do martial arts to get in shape and have fun with it. Only about ten percent of all martial artists ever fight in a full contact venue, and yes, that includes those in boxing, kickboxing, and MMA gyms. It's hard to compare grappling tournaments because the risk of injury isn't there like it is in these combat sports. I guess there is just something about getting hit full contact that scares people away, and as I have heard you say many times and I agree grappling can be done and competed in for many years.

I honestly care not at all how others train, not one bit. If someone wants to walk in circles, do forms, practice chi blasts, or pray to Buhda it makes not an inkling of difference to me. There is no great cause, no souls to save, no great reckoning that will come to those other than what they make of themselves. They may go years doing their forms and chi blasts and never have a use for combat art.

Than again, they may realize one day that what they practiced was not for battle. Who knows, and honestly, who cares. If you know what you know, you are doing much better than the average person. The only thing you can do is show people different paths, and let them choose which one they want to walk.

Life is much too short to argue with people who make no difference at all in your life. Train, grow, progress, and prosper. That is all one really needs to do.

[David Jamieson]

What you say is true and smart and that is so rare here so I wanted to let you know it's appreciated.

NO ray, what's rare here is people validating your endless trolling. You seem blind to that fact though.

Personally, I like wrestlers because they don't like being on their back, and instead of securing a position, like half guard and work from there, they tend so squirm and give the back or other opportunities..... this of course is generalizing the reactions of non-figthing wrestlers.

What do you know about Wrestling besides what you watch on TV ray? I wrestled GR in HS an dthough it was long ago, I cna fairly say you don't know what you're talking about. BUmps, pops etc do not = "squirming".

Judo guys are tough. Not only because of the throws, they understand the grip game at a high level. They set things up from the very beginning. Very good at tugging on the collar. And they have a powerful ground game.

Do you do Judo Ray? Judo is about throws, no one gets punched full force in the face. Most of the good Judo people are amateurs and it is simply repeated practice that makes them good at Judo, not good at fighting necessarily.

Sambo guys, in my experience, are sneaky little *******s.... and you have to watch for the ankle and knee locks. I like that about them. For 6 months all I did was take private lessons at Renzo's for leg locks.... because they told me they weren't allowed in while belt classes. I like to train the moves that work so well and cause so much damage they're illegal. People freak out. Tap..... or get hurt.

tap? that's the measure of it? I wish I could tap to get out of trouble.

Not sure what the point of this is, but its good to know the strengths and tendencies of each style.... the weak part of non-figthing, non competing BJJers is that they are delicate...... they'll flinch when accidentally elbowed, catch a knee, head butt. etc. But most non-fighters and/or competitors will.

The point is that you are being a grandstanding chest pounder with all your negative crap coming to bag on Kung Fu practitioners.

I honestly have to say, pound for pound, year to year, it's very hard to beat BJJ in a 1-to-1 match..... they change levels and get under striking. They take a strike to gain control for the take down.. Once down, its like fish out of water for the non BJJer.

BJJ is a great style. That's why endorse it. And I've been at places that place equal emphasis on self defense and others that are 100% training to roll and just roll factories.... which I like too.

Yes Ray, we know you are a bjj fan.

Either way, BJJers should train some boxing or kick boxing the same way a boxer or kick boxer should train a little BJJ.

Ya think? Why? Why not tell the Gracies they need to go learn how to box. They would likely love to have your expert advice! I'm almost certain of it!

I would guess dedicated TCMAers who are comfortable with their hands, compete in San Da or kick boxing, eventually find their way to BJJ.... and then adding that go to MMA. It's natural.

No, no we don't Ray. We do Kung Fu. We take in what we can as we get exposed to it and then keep on with the Kung Fu. Unlike so many sport du jour hoppers like yourself who make up the mass of people doing martial arts. 1 year of this 2 years of that, etc etc.

This is not to say that MMA is better. It's just a more open environment..... fighters want to fight as unrestrained as possible. For their own freedom. And for knowing when they win they won against the others best.

32 rules and you can tap if you feel dizzy.

What does this mean for Kung Fu?

Sweet Eff All, except in your brain.

I would think it means one of a few things:

Focus on what you do best.... focus on the trapping and sticking. Advertise that. Sell that.

Clear example of what little you know and understanding about Kung Fu. Trapping and sticking? really? lol that's hilarious!

But who would it draw? Fighters want to see proof. They want to see it work. They want to feel and test a technique.... it's their a$$ on the line.

YOu have an extremely limited understanding of the world beyond the reach of your arm. This is a monumentally misinformed quote.

So why would an MMAer go devote 10 years to walking in a circle when those who walk circle can't do what he does? But anyone can walk around and around..... well, they say the others don't walk round and round the right way? But what difference is the way around if both ways go nowhere..... no proof. no living example.

Says who ray? Says you?

So the other way is to change:

To adapt new ways. But will you adapt BJJ better than the lifetime student who has 3 sons with schools? Maybe.

What about the hands? Do you need to change from stick and follow to create openings/angles? Can you do that better than boxing? Maybe.

Maybe you need to go learn to do martial arts and quit trolling a kung fu board? Seriously.

[hskwarrior]

lmfaorotf!!!!!!

[Punch.HeadButt]

My pops was in the Marines in the 60s and said that one of the things they taught was to bite the nose off the enemy if your hands are bound. It's soft and squishy target that leaves a gaping, bleeding hole in the face. Pretty much a guaranteed kill, by infection if nothing else.

So, you know...there's that, I guess.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My pops was in the Marines in the 60s and said that one of the things they taught was to bite the nose off the enemy if your hands are bound. It's soft and squishy target that leaves a gaping, bleeding hole in the face. Pretty much a guaranteed kill, by infection if nothing else.

So, you know...there's that, I guess.

Yea, a lot of silly crap was/is taught in the military.
Remember the old "drive the nose bone into the brain" crap?
LOL !

[Punch.HeadButt]

Yea, a lot of silly crap was/is taught in the military.
Remember the old "drive the nose bone into the brain" crap?
LOL !

I don't know what a "nose bone" is.

I'm not sure how they were expected to launch the nose-biting attack with their hands bound, but I bet that one time, one guy in a ****ty situation pulled it off. And was promptly shot.

[David Jamieson]

I don't know what a "nose bone" is.

It's the top front one here. (nasal bone)

[Punch.HeadButt]

Yeh, I'm not seeing that going into my brain.

This has nothing to do with anything, but:



I don't know.