When are we going to stop this?

[YouKnowWho]

So, basically, the technique that you used as your prime example for standing chi na, is one you have never seen work for real and also depends on the opponent being stupid and/or slow enough not to let go when you make your move.

No wonder Ray gives you guys a hard time for living in fantasy-land.

I'm not in favor of wrist lock myself because my opponent still has too much freedom on his elbow joint, but I'm in favor of elbow lock, shoulder lock, waist (spine) lock, knee lock, ankle lock, and head lock.

I have used this elbow lock so many times on the mat. It's one of the 1st degree black belt testing requirement in ACSCA. One of my guys had shown this "elbow lock" in his Sambo/Judo club (all my guys have cross training) and those Sambo and Judo guys all loved it.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1032/cracking.jpg

[Peaceful Orchid]

I'm not in favor of wrist lock, but I'm in favor of elbow lock, shoulder lock, waist (spine) lock, knee lock, ankle lock, and head lock.

I have used this elbow lock so many times on the mat. It's one of the 1st degree black belt testing requirement in ACSCA.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1032/cracking.jpg

One of my guys had shown this "elbow lock" in his Sambo/Judo club and those Sambo and Judo guys all loved it.

Whew boy. I've finally figured it out. You are a troll from Bullshido posting here to make kung fu people look stupid.

Looks like I'm the stupid one for taking so long to figure this one out.

Good one. You got me. Nice troll job. I'm impressed!

I need some new troll glasses.

[YouKnowWho]

You are a troll from Bullshido posting here to make kung fu people look stupid.

Am I? I thought you are.

The "崩(Beng) - Crack" is 100% TCMA joint locking skill.

[Lokhopkuen]

Whew boy. I've finally figured it out. You are a troll from Bullshido posting here to make kung fu people look stupid.

Looks like I'm the stupid one for taking so long to figure this one out.

Good one. You got me. Nice troll job. I'm impressed!

I need some new troll glasses.

It's sad that you don't even realize you are trolling an experienced, respected teacher of traditional art. He doesn't have to do anything to make you look stupid, you're doing a capital job on your very own.

BTW
Welcome to our Kung Fu forum

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Peaceful Orchid,
Your stats say you joined in 1970. You have 136 posts in all that time.

That tells me you are on staff at KFM and know darn well who "You Know Who" is.

Stop being an ass!

[MightyB]

So, basically, the technique that you used as your prime example for standing chi na, is one you have never seen work for real and also depends on the opponent being stupid and/or slow enough not to let go when you make your move.

No wonder Ray gives you guys a hard time for living in fantasy-land.

Noob - you don't see standing chin na very often in MMA because it's not practiced. It doesn't mean it doesn't work. I posted a clip of someone busting a top MMA athlete's arm with standing chin na takedown... someone who's obviously practiced standing chin na techniques.

Guess what other takedowns you don't see often in MMA? Uchi-mata, Sumi Gaeshi, heck you don't even see O-goshi, but if you are stupid enough to believe those takedowns don't work, then there's no help for you.

MMA isn't everything DB.

[Brule]

I remember a time when they said, high kicks are useless and don't work. But, TCMA still practised them and so did everyone. Then when they started causing KO's in MMA, all of a sudden the tune changed. Now you see them more regularly than before. Just because it hasn't happened in MMA doesn't mean it's ineffective.

[David Jamieson]

Content comes from you guys. If you don't want anymore mma v tcma threads stop responding to them when they get posted by your garden variety posters who can't seem to get out of the wet paper bag no matter how hard they punch.

I personally would rather talk about myriad other things such as:

- Origins of a given art.
- Methods and how they were developed
- Results from using an ancient method and if it is still valid today
- How styles address strength and maintenance of suppleness
- Fast gains or slow and steady, which would you rather do?

and so on.

I think it works along the lines of the lower your thought forms, the more likely you are gonna keep repeating those same thought forms.

"If you listen to fools, the mob rules" as Dio said. lol

[KungFuBiker]

It’s actually kinda funny, a thread started primarily to complain about the constant bickering about TCMA v/s MMA that (almost) immediately degenerates into…
Seriously, you guys remind me of a cross town junior-high rivalry. And it’s not just TCMA v/s MMA it also seems to occur (and is just as ridiculous) between TCMA schools/styles. I am certain many of you are Sifus and/or Black Belts in a discipline where restraint and respect are one of the many things taught and you can’t do any better?
I am a recent newcomer to these threads and I joined thinking it would be fun and interesting to connect with people who share my interest in the martial arts, maybe learn some things about different styles. Sad to say I am disappointed.

[David Jamieson]

It’s actually kinda funny, a thread started primarily to complain about the constant bickering about TCMA v/s MMA that (almost) immediately degenerates into…
Seriously, you guys remind me of a cross town junior-high rivalry. And it’s not just TCMA v/s MMA it also seems to occur (and is just as ridiculous) between TCMA schools/styles. I am certain many of you are Sifus and/or Black Belts in a discipline where restraint and respect are one of the many things taught and you can’t do any better?
I am a recent newcomer to these threads and I joined thinking it would be fun and interesting to connect with people who share my interest in the martial arts, maybe learn some things about different styles. Sad to say I am disappointed.

Well, we can't please everyone and to be honest, there are many who simply don't care. the social aspect will always be organic and changing.

There are many here who are serious practitioners, teachers, students etc. Some of them are even famous!

Rule of thumb when wading into these things is that you have to understand you are going to shovel a lot of snow before you get to the cabin...

[Ray Pina]

How many threads do we need to argue "TCMA vs. MMA"? Have we said everything that we want to say. Is there anything new that we have not yet covered?

I don't look at is as a TCMA vs MMA issue. I look at it as a TCMA validity issue.... MMA, being today's modern standard, is simply what it is being measured against now.

A car manufacturer not obsessed right now with alternative fuel methods will be gone, have no future in 25 years.

TCMA should have been obsessed with keeping their training and core materials about applicable combat the momment the government started to get involved, push form and ultimately Wu Shu.

Everyone got fat off the Bruce Lee buzz then Jackie Chan. Multiple generations of non warriors passed along fluff to another generation ducking open competition.

This of course does not apply to the hardcore legit TCMAers here or the UFC fighters moonlighting as Shaolin Monks. Its the other guys we don't see anywhere doing anything.

This should be issue No. 1 for Kung Fu if it seeks any legitimacy as a martial art.

[Peaceful Orchid]

It's sad that you don't even realize you are trolling an experienced, respected teacher of traditional art. He doesn't have to do anything to make you look stupid, you're doing a capital job on your very own.

If that's what an experienced TCMA thinks are effective, high percentage techniques then it's easy to see why Ray thinks so lowly of TCMA's in general.

[wenshu]

Peaceful Orchid,
Your stats say you joined in 1970. You have 136 posts in all that time.

That tells me you are on staff at KFM and know darn well who "You Know Who" is.

Stop being an ass!

All that means is that the date_joined field in the MYSQL db is NULL. PHP's date() function outputs 0000-00-00 as 1970-01-01.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time

It is likely because it is an alternate account of a member of the old system that got transferred over here like most of the regulars or there was a bug when they joined and the field was left NULL.

[David Jamieson]

I don't look at is as a TCMA vs MMA issue. I look at it as a TCMA validity issue.... MMA, being today's modern standard, is simply what it is being measured against now.

A car manufacturer not obsessed right now with alternative fuel methods will be gone, have no future in 25 years.

TCMA should have been obsessed with keeping their training and core materials about applicable combat the momment the government started to get involved, push form and ultimately Wu Shu.

Everyone got fat off the Bruce Lee buzz then Jackie Chan. Multiple generations of non warriors passed along fluff to another generation ducking open competition.

This of course does not apply to the hardcore legit TCMAers here or the UFC fighters moonlighting as Shaolin Monks. Its the other guys we don't see anywhere doing anything.

This should be issue No. 1 for Kung Fu if it seeks any legitimacy as a martial art.

So, how are YOU helping that Pina? You say this stuff as if you mean it, but really, your general tack is anti tcma, bitter rants and ignoring the people who do exactly what you demand.

You don't even consider the sheer amount of fluff and nonsense that goes on in mma schools and excuse it because you favour it.

Maybe you should man up, be honest and properly understand your own point of view.

In other words, if you think TCMA should adapt and modernize, then go do that and be happy with your thing. There is no reward in stomping yoru feet and whining like a little b*tch because people like to do forms and qigong.

FYI I've had offers to purchase forms and lineage by mma clubs that can't get their body of students into the regular sparring and ramped up flow drills. Why? Because there are a lot of people who aren't into that because there is no goal for them. They don't want to fight amateur level, they don't want to fight pro or semi-pro, they want a martial arts workout and some basic training and continuation. Where are they gonna get that if some jerk keeps demanding they go full on and get injured all the time if they really want to learn.

In my opinion, there is loads of immature thought in many different houses of training. All of them have their dummies and fails.

What is sad is that no matter how many times it is explained to you you maintain that irritating troll dumbness.

[hskwarrior]

So, how are YOU helping that Pina? You say this stuff as if you mean it, but really, your general tack is anti tcma, bitter rants and ignoring the people who do exactly what you demand.

You don't even consider the sheer amount of fluff and nonsense that goes on in mma schools and excuse it because you favour it.

Maybe you should man up, be honest and properly understand your own point of view.

In other words, if you think TCMA should adapt and modernize, then go do that and be happy with your thing. There is no reward in stomping yoru feet and whining like a little b*tch because people like to do forms and qigong.

FYI I've had offers to purchase forms and lineage by mma clubs that can't get their body of students into the regular sparring and ramped up flow drills. Why? Because there are a lot of people who aren't into that because there is no goal for them. They don't want to fight amateur level, they don't want to fight pro or semi-pro, they want a martial arts workout and some basic training and continuation. Where are they gonna get that if some jerk keeps demanding they go full on and get injured all the time if they really want to learn.

In my opinion, there is loads of immature thought in many different houses of training. All of them have their dummies and fails.

What is sad is that no matter how many times it is explained to you you maintain that irritating troll dumbness.

Who is this? and what did you do with Jamieson?