When are we going to stop this?

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats why its important to actually look at the fighters bio, imo. from there many times you can learn what the make up of their sanda is. for instance i saw one that claimed shaolin kungfu for his sanda training...thats pretty straight forward if you ask me.

Sure, but as I mentioned to Ray, when people in TCMA want to be fighters their choice is ( typically and right now):
Join a Sanda gym
Join a "kickboxing" gym
Join a MMA gym

Of course there are more issues there also, since you have to be part of the organization to compete, but it is also very clear that it is in THOSE gyms that they take it to the next level.

[RenDaHai]

You either train martial arts or you don't.

Well, I guess it depends on your definitions.

WuShu doesn't translate to Martial Arts. It is the Art of Wu, and Wu doesn't translate perfectly as 'Martial'. Gong Fu has nothing to do with Martial Arts at all. So actually, no, they don't call it Martial Arts, they call it what it is, WuShu and GongFu. Telling someone 'I don't want to fight' and if that works and they don't fight you, then that is wushu.


Dude, you have a real simple world view. Don't say stuff like N. Shaolin is a dead MA. Its not the style, its the poeple who train it. There are 60,000 students in Shaolin, law of averages says some of them are some real Violent people, you think they can't use it?

Its a mentality your arguing against, don't stereotype the styles. Its just makes you sound wrong.

Its fair to argue about the mentality behind trainers, its a reasonable argument, but its been done and finished.

[Lucas]

China will produce an international MMA champ eventually.... it won't look like Wing Chun. Not because they refined it so much. It's because it will be MMA: kick boxing with wrestling and Judo.

If i remember correctly Yao is going to defend his title soon. he started martial arts in shuai jiao. with his shuai jiao he went 47-3 in various wrestling championships. you can look it up...so if he does become an international champ, he'll have his shuai jiao to thank.

yes he is a brown belt in bjj, yes he has trained muay thai. doesnt take away from the fact that HE claims shuai jiao as his primary style.

[Lucas]

That last line is funny because I just got over jet jag. In the past 3 weeks I;ve been in Hannover, Germany, New York City and Las Vegas. Next month I got to Shanghai

dude im jealous

[Lucas]

Sure, but as I mentioned to Ray, when people in TCMA want to be fighters their choice is ( typically and right now):
Join a Sanda gym
Join a "kickboxing" gym
Join a MMA gym

Of course there are more issues there also, since you have to be part of the organization to compete, but it is also very clear that it is in THOSE gyms that they take it to the next level.

you must get off on bitch slapping the correct and making it your bang maid

[Peaceful Orchid]

No one goes:
I want to be a pro fighter, I am joining a wing chun school.

What they do is go:

I'm joining a (insert any myriad of wing chun or other non-fighting type schools) because i want to be a "street" fighter.

[RenDaHai]

Not everyone needs to be a fighter. The problem almost always starts when the non-fighters tell the fighters what "works" when it's pretty obvious they have no clue what really works and what doesn't work.

True that. But its just as big a problem when a sports fighter tells someone what they do will work in the street because it works in the ring.

[sanjuro_ronin]

you must get off on bitch slapping the correct and making it your bang maid

Well, we been around the block right?
We know that things are never so black and white as Ray makes them but we also know that there is an element of truth to what he says about the current state of many TCMA.
I just don't think that matters to the vast majority of people doing those MA.
When I was in TKD, it was a sport and going into the Olympics and and there was much noise and popularity and you knwo what?
The guys that competed were still the ones that were competing BEFORE the fame and are still the ones competing after it.
The majority couldn't care less.
They came 3X week, did their gradings, got their belts and whatever.
Those of us that trained 3 hours a day, they bled and broke bones, guess what?
We could and still can use that TKS to kick butt because that was how we trained it.
I have a buddy of mine that has been doing MMA for 2 years (this will be his 3rd) and he treats it like "his TKD".
Sure he gets a more well rounded training and such but guess what?
He is not and will never be a fighter.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What they do is go:

I'm joining a (insert any myriad of wing chun or other non-fighting type schools) because i want to be a "street" fighter.

An idiot like that deserves all they get.

[Peaceful Orchid]

True that. But its just as big a problem when a sports fighter tells someone what they do will work in the street because it works in the ring.

A huge number of things that work in the ring will work on the street. Generally, "ring fighters" have far more "street" experience than do the guys who "train for the street" and know much more about what works there than the guys who are "street training."

[sanjuro_ronin]

True that. But its just as big a problem when a sports fighter tells someone what they do will work in the street because it works in the ring.

Everything I have learned and done in the ring has worked on the street, everything.
WHY?
Because on the street the other guy is NOT ( Typically) a guy that trains hours every day to beat up people, but some bully that THINKS he can fight because he has NEVER met a trained fighter before.

[Peaceful Orchid]

An idiot like that deserves all they get.

I give you Exhibit A

True that. But its just as big a problem when a sports fighter tells someone what they do will work in the street because it works in the ring.

[wenshu]

That last line is funny because I just got over jet jag. In the past 3 weeks I;ve been in Hannover, Germany, New York City and Las Vegas. Next month I got to Shanghai

It's a shame that someone so well traveled is so obstinately incapable of seeing past their own one dimensional prejudices.

[Golden Arms]

The following styles are dead martial arts:
Wing Chun
Hung Gar (all of the Gar family styles)
S. Mantis
N. Mantis
N. Shaolin
S. Shaolin
Bak Mei
Taiji
Ba Gua
Hsing-I
Dog boxing
Five animals
Dragon style
Lama Pai
Chinese sword
Leopard Kung Fu
Monkey Kung Fu
All the animal kung fus
White Crane
Drunken fist

... I thought it was just easier to say TCMA since the what, 3 Shui JIao and San Da guys claim kickboxing.

Anyway WuShu lives and prospers.

You sure like to talk like you know a lot...

Just so other posters know how much of an authority you are on fighting, why don't you publicly state your record again?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I give you Exhibit A

That is NOT what you were talking about and if you read Ren's posts you see he is not one to "join a MA school to be a street fighter".

The fact that TCMA have as much misconceptions about sport combat that sport combat guys have about TCMA is quite obvious.