The correct.Originally Posted by JPinAZ
GM of Hadaka Korosu
The correct.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
agree....like making a battle plan...
Wing Chun Fighter
So why do we drill techniques at all?
why drill pak sau or tan sau or bong sau or bil sau against certain techniques?
Why develop muscle memory?
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1157801]
I respect your response Ian...But from experience I find Even with your elbows down and in an uppercut can still slip through unless you make a adjustment while your attacking. In fighting your not going to be stand there with your wu sau guards out while the other guy is throwing hooks and crosses at you. You will be attacking...part of WC is attack an defend simultaneously...what im asking is while you are fighting what basic self defense techniques do you practice against an upper cut to minimize your risk as you gain entry!
QUOTE]
Yoshi, if you punch at the correct range your elbows will be down and your rear hand should be in position. Try it against someone trying to upper cut properly. Its not about peek aboo can I tap you with a heat seeking hand. Pad up and get someone to throw meaty punches at you. Uppercuts will not get through if you punch properly. If you stand in front of the guy though you can expect a rough trade, with hooks and crosses so I'd suggest angling as well. The simplest answers are the most effective.
A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
Wing Chun kung fu in Redditch
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Wing Chun Fighter
i agree with your take on angling...but still even when your punching someone hooks are thrown and variety attacks coming at you. An different punches slip in?
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1157948]
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
Does not being a WC practitioner disqualify me from contributing to this topic? I train Songshan Shaolin, but many of our structures and techniques are similar/identical, as I've seen, believe it or not.
We have a common technique called gongbu tuizhang (bow step pushing palm). It is a two part move and can be used as a defense against a tight-range uppercut, or in any situation where you're close to the opponent with their forearms almost vertical, as in a tight boxing style uppercut. You can even do it by stuffing their guard and going from there.
The technique is this; say a left uppercut is incoming, we use our right forearm to block on the outside of the opponents arm in a structure resembling WC's fuk sau. The wrist turns inward to either hook around the opponent's wrist, or cover the fist from above for added protection.
But the crux of the technique lies in turning the waist to the left while using the forearm/elbow to push against the outside of the opponent's arm, around the elbow or higher. Since the forearm can pivot at the elbow, it is important to push at the elbow or higher on the upper arm. Since it is directly connected to the shoulder, the turn will cause the opponent's upper body to turn. We will now be at an angle facing our opponent, but looking at their shoulders, minimizing their ability to attack with the other hand. Our right arm still maintains control of their nearest arm, so that it can't disengage for a hook punch or anything.
Meanwhile, our left hand will come inside and over the top of our right hand in a position resembling WC's taan sau, keeping the center tight and deflecting anything that might have gotten through. The left hand then continues forward turning fingers skyward to deliver a outside base-of-palm strike to the jawbone, turning the opponent's head and upper body further. As we do this we are pressing forward with our left "bow stance" into the opponent, taking their space.
The final position of the palm strike also resembles WC's wu sau, with the fingers pointing upward the forearm is slanting out and downward with the elbow slightly out. This would effectively stuff the opponents right hook punch, meeting it at the inside of the upper arm, should they be able to retreat and make such an attack, if you didn't successfully turn their upper body.
From the final position, the follow up is your choice. Whatever your style, you're in an optimal position for multi-strikes, locks, takedowns, etc..
Registered User
It depends on what hand the opponent is using the uppercut with . If it ' s the right hand , then I can use the left hand pak sao or left hand downward slap block with a right hand vertical fist punch to the face area . Or you can use a right palm strike to the opponents' face , even a right bil jee to the eyes .
GM of Hadaka Korosu
You know the old saying...everyone has a plan...
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Wing Chun Fighter
Training muscle memory until certain things become instinctive or second nature is key to applying techniques with flow an at the spur of the moment...
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Which ONLY works as well as what you are being exposed to.
In other words:
Ingraining the muscle memory to deal with a uppercut that you know is coming and done a certain way will NOT help you to deal with an uppercut you do NOT know is coming and delivered in a different way.
As a WC person you should know that instinctive application of TECHNIQUE is inferior to instinctive application of principles while fighting.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Couldn't agree more - well said!!
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Registered User
Right on man
You are more than right, after all ... WC is the distillation product of other chines MA.
Wing Chun Fighter
Why not have both ingrained...
Technique and Principles?
Why cant both become instinctive?
Ne Way your right only training against an upper cut with out really defending against a non-choregraphic opponent who is throwing multiple attacks at you is the best way to hone your skill at defending...an uppercut wont be the only thing you need to defend against...but if its the only thing you have no Answer for...where there in lies the problem...
You have weak spot...
Not to say training and sparring will make you invincible. It wont no matter how much you train and fight sometimes things will slip through....
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Unless you can train VS all types of fighting systems and how they fight ( something that WC practioners are notorious for NOT doing), the ideal way is to train against the principles.
Of course the best way to do that is to actually fight so what you need is to expose yourself to as many fighting styles as possible (testing phase) and develop the skills to deal with THEM ( development phase).
Training to defend an uppercut from a partner that is throwing them in a "WC manner" when you know they are coming will develop the skills to defend against THAT and nothing else.
A good boxer will drill an uppercut from the outside and inside and in combinations and as attacks and counters AND part of combos, sometimes leading with it or ending with it or throwing it somewhere inbetween.
And he will throw it to HIT you, at the range that it does the max effect.
And thatis just a boxer, don't even got there about how a kali guy might do it or an MMA guy, etc.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
pagan kickboxing taoist
Uppercut has different varities. Boxer uppercut and or dirty boxing/mma upper cut. you guys have touched on the boxing more or less. What about the half plum dirty upper? Dont know much about the techniques of wc but you should look at the technique from all angles.
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
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