Qigong FAIL

[GoldenBrain]

Holy back fat batman!

[GeneChing]

Yoga and qigong offer no relief from back pain in elderly people, German study finds
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 03 July, 2016, 5:32pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 03 July, 2016, 10:55pm



Stephen Chen

Contrary to popular belief, yoga and qigong do not reduce back pain in elderly people, according to German research.
The study recruited 175 volunteers aged 65 or more with lower back pain at the Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin, one of Germany’s largest medical research institutions.
The patients were divided into three groups for randomised controlled trials – one practised the modern Viniyoga method, another a qigong course called Nei Yang Gong, and the third received no intervention – for three months.
At the end, the patients were asked to grade their pain on a scale from zero for no pain to four for worst pain. No difference was found among the groups. The researchers, suspecting some effects might take longer to show up, took measurements again three month later, but still no significant difference emerged.

[But] the results do not say that yoga or qigong are not beneficial for older adults
DR MICHAEL TEUT

The results were surprising, according to the researchers led by Dr Michael Teut. “The results do not say that yoga or qigong are not beneficial for older adults,” Teut told the South China Morning Post. “In contrast, most of our patients were very satisfied with the programme”, although it did not reduce pain, he said.
Their paper will appear in the American Pain Society journal next month but is available now for a fee online.
Back pain is a common affliction worldwide. In Germany it affects two in three women and 58 per cent of men, according to a recent survey. Pain medication often has side effects, prompting an interest in alternative therapies in Western countries.
Yoga has existed as a spiritual and meditative practice in India for more than 2,000 years, although many of its exercise movements are more modern. Previous studies indicate that yoga as a form of exercise could relieve back pain, though the participants in those studies were mostly young.
Qigong has an equally long history in China as a form of exercise that channels the flow of internal qi or life energy in the body through a series of delicate, guided movements. Qigong, according to some recent studies in peer-reviewed journals, helped reduce blood pressure, depression, anxiety and the risk of falls in older adults.
But the value of yoga and qigong as alternative therapies remains a subject of debate among medical researchers. A systematic review of the health benefits of qigong and tai chi for cancer patients by Professor Zeng Yingchun at the Third Affiliated Hospital of Guangzhou Medical University in 2013 cautioned that the positive findings “need to be interpreted cautiously” due to the limited number trials.
While qi and its equivalent concept of prana in yoga are central concepts to traditional Asian medicine and martial arts, Western science has no method to define or measure it, and so cannot accept it as a physical entity.
A similar review of the literature of yoga conducted by researchers at Duke University in April concluded that while there was some evidence it was useful for middle-aged adults with lower back pain, “the effects of yoga for health-related quality of life, well-being and acute low back pain are uncertain”.
The German researchers said that although the volunteers reported no measurable improvement in pain relief, most were satisfied with the exercises, and some said they would recommend the therapies to family and friends.
One possible reason why the traditional exercises provided little pain relief to older patients was that the ability to cope with pain changes with age, they suggested. Some studies indicate young people deal better with pain.

Older adults may have a diminished ability to effectively respond to the stress of persistent pain
GERMAN RESEARCH TEAM

“Older adults may have a diminished ability to effectively respond to the stress of persistent pain, which may be related to cognitive and physical impairments, increased sensitivity to pain … and social isolation,” they wrote.
Yang Quanpu, a Taoist monk practising qigong in Beijing, said the exercise relieved pain by removing obstacles that hinder the flow of qi in the body. In traditional Chinese medicine theory, pain is caused by such “blocks”.
“When you being practising qigong you may even feel an increase in pain as the qi tries to overcome these obstacles. This can be very difficult for some people,” Yang said.
“The relief of pain takes time, depending on the health and physical condition of the practitioner, but with persistence and proper guidance, the benefits will come in the end. One who starts qigong in youth may avoid back pain for life.”

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as:
Study debunks myth qigong relieves pain

Stick to your guns...or swords...oh Taoist monk.

[mickey]

Greetings,

There are major flaws in the way both Yoga and Qigong were utilized. What team of high level practitioners were assembled for consultation? Were both exercise systems specifically designed to alleviate chronic lower back pain or known for alleviating said pain? And for only a month? What the fukk!! This is nothing but a commercial for pain management doctors and their cache of drugs. If you have pain there is a wonderful drug for it.

This is really a new low for the Qigong fail thread.

mickey

[Cataphract]

This is nothing but a commercial for pain management doctors and their cache of drugs. If you have pain there is a wonderful drug for it.

In a perfect world you're right. But who is getting a team of high level of practitioners to design a system specific to their individiual aches? Persons usually experience chronic pain, go to a community center and do whatever the lady/gentleman there tells them to do. Is it too much to ask to see some benefit after a whole month of standard training? I bet they would after a month of weight training. Such studies are used by insurance companies with millions of clients after all.

[mickey]

Greetings Cataphract,

That is what Masters in both disciplines can do: prescribe and develop exercise to address certain problems. If there are those with that level of accomplishment who cannot deliver, they should hang it up and go find a table for life at McDonald's or Burger Kings. Supersize them to death.

mickey

[rett2]

Be interesting to see the result if they tested for core strength training + qigong vs. just core strength training (and a control group with no intervention).

Mickey, I totally agree, but for broad medical applications they would need a homogenized McQigong that can be taught by somewhat-trained, mass-produced non-masters. (Kind of like the McAcupuncture in western health systems, and the "mindfulness" industry offering expensive courses to become a certified mindfulness teacher). The whole idea of highly skilled masters with lifelong training goes against the industrial-production model of capitalism.

[Jimbo]

...for broad medical applications they would need a homogenized McQigong that can be taught by somewhat-trained, mass-produced non-masters. (Kind of like the McAcupuncture in western health systems, and the "mindfulness" industry offering expensive courses to become a certified mindfulness teacher). The whole idea of highly skilled masters with lifelong training goes against the industrial-production model of capitalism.

AFAIK, at least iN CA, in order to legally practice acupuncture requires CA certification, which is NOT easy for anyone to obtain. I know several people, including some friends, who are certified/licensed acupuncturists, and in my city they are all alums of Pacific College of Oriental Medicine (PCOM). From all I've heard, it's a very vigorous program that also includes some required understanding of Western medicine, so that someone can diagnose whether someone's condition is beyond the help of only Eastern modalities.

Maybe it's different in other states; I don't know. I do know that, at least in my profession of massage therapy, requirements and certification to legitimately practice as a certified massage therapist are far more stringent in CA and NY than in other states. I personally have both national and state certification, and I wouldn't be surprised if licensed acupuncturists, whose requirements are stricter and more extensive than ours, require more (I've never asked).

[mickey]

Greetings,

for broad medical applications they would need a homogenized McQigong that can be taught by somewhat-trained, mass-produced non-masters.

Masters can do this. All that was needed to be done for both sets of disciplines was to present them with the matter to be addressed. They would develop a set of "prescribed exercises" that would address it, whether it be Yoga or Qigong. Also, the duration of the study should have been extended: one month, three months, six months, to one year. Maybe it is is cultural ignorance of how Yoga and Qigong can be implemented or it could be a matter of funding; in my opinion, it is about prescription drugs for pain ($$$). Pain management center are popping up all over the USA. They are more than willing to give you the "stuff" you need.


mickey

[rett2]

AFAIK, at least iN CA, in order to legally practice acupuncture requires CA certification, which is NOT easy for anyone to obtain. I know several people, including some friends, who are certified/licensed acupuncturists, and in my city they are all alums of Pacific College of Oriental Medicine (PCOM). From all I've heard, it's a very vigorous program that also includes some required understanding of Western medicine, so that someone can diagnose whether someone's condition is beyond the help of only Eastern modalities.

Maybe it's different in other states; I don't know. I do know that, at least in my profession of massage therapy, requirements and certification to legitimately practice as a certified massage therapist are far more stringent in CA and NY than in other states. I personally have both national and state certification, and I wouldn't be surprised if licensed acupuncturists, whose requirements are stricter and more extensive than ours, require more (I've never asked).

At least in some parts of Europe, physical therapists are allowed to give acupuncture treatment after very cursory training. That's the sort of level I was thinking of.

[rett2]

Masters can do this. All that was needed to be done for both sets of disciplines was to present them with the matter to be addressed. They would develop a set of "prescribed exercises" that would address it, whether it be Yoga or Qigong. Also, the duration of the study should have been extended: one month, three months, six months, to one year. Maybe it is is cultural ignorance of how Yoga and Qigong can be implemented or it could be a matter of funding; in my opinion, it is about prescription drugs for pain ($$$). Pain management center are popping up all over the USA. They are more than willing to give you the "stuff" you need.

It would be interesting to see a study like that, definitely. I wonder, though, how much a master would want to tailor fit training to each patient. Some (perhaps many) elderly person’s backs are probably degraded to where no therapy will significantly help against pain. Time doesn't flow backwards.

As far as Qigong is concerned, I'd mostly be interested in comparing purely physical exercises with physical exercises that are coordinated with breathing and include a meditation component. The latter might help people handle chronic pain better, even if they still feel the pain. That's what a lot of anecdotal evidence suggests anyhow.

[No_Know]

My two cents on Qigong related fail in my goings-on.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44007

No_Know

[GeneChing]

There's a qigong trick for ya. Take the money and run. Karma will get him.

Patient dies after expensive Qigong therapy tries to "starve" cancer cells
2016-10-11 20:11:57 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Shi


The patient's husband takes a photo of the Qigong therapy process. [Photo: Shanghai Morning Post]

A cancer patient died in 2015 despite spending 300,000 yuan (nearly 44,000 USD) on Qigong therapy in an attempt to "starve" the cancer cells. The so-called Qigong therapist has disappeared and not returned any money, reported Shanghai Morning Post on Tuesday, October 11.

At the end of last year, a 61-year-old woman, surnamed Zhang, was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. As her cancer was at the end stage, she was told it could not be cured and Zhang turned to a Qigong therapist who claimed to be able to cure any disease.

Zhang, accompanied by her husband, saw the Qigong therapist who told her the treatment would cost 300,000 yuan and had to be paid in advance. The Qigong therapist promised to cure the disease within 35 days.

She paid and accepted treatment from the therapist. The treatment included not eating, and the cancer cells would in turn starve to death. The therapist also told Zhang to stop taking pain-killers and other medical treatment.

After 39 days of only consuming ginger soups made and rubbing black ointment on her body, Zhang lost a total 10kg and felt intense stomach pain.

At the end of December last year, Zhang felt her heart intermittently stop. The Qigong therapist, frightened, advised her to resume the medical treatment. Later, the therapist was found to have disappeared without returning any money for the treatment.

The newspaper has tried to contact the Qigong therapist for a statement, but has failed several times.
Xu Feng, vice president from the research institution of Qigong in Shanghai said that some people take advantage of the lack of medical knowledge and will try to cheat them out of money. It is impossible to cure cancer by Qigong therapy.

Traditionally, Qigong (Chi Kung) means cultivating energy. It is a system practiced for health maintenance, healing and increasing vitality.

[GeneChing]

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2. I posted some follow up on the post above on the Busted Qigong Masters thread.

3. This doesn't quite fit here, but as I'm posting the certificate, I might as well link to it.

[mawali]

The treatment included not eating, and the cancer cells would in turn starve to death.

This point is taken to its meaning as it is but this is a fallacy! Starving cancer cells does not mean not eating but the premise is to change the cellular matrix (from sugars!) but replacing with beneficial 'food" (the ubiquitious can of worms) i.e. more 'nutritious (another loaded term) food for the cell, which in turn will serve as a basis for denying the 'sugars' often associated with 'cancers'.
Also, far too many quacks get away with being con artists in conjunction with the individual need to live as if one just has to wish and horses will appear ready to take you on a ride.

[GeneChing]

Steamed to death in a WOK: Prayer session goes horribly wrong when 'magic man' is killed trying to 'cleanse his body and soul' in a metal pot with a fire underneath in Malaysia
WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT
Lim Ba had been performing human steaming for more than 10 years in Malaysia
Devotees watched as he sat in giant wok with a lid before fire was lit underneath
But after 30 minutes, the 68-year-old 'magic man' started knocking frantically
He was pronounced dead from major second-degree burns and a heart attack
By Richard Shears for MailOnline
PUBLISHED: 02:43 EDT, 25 October 2017 | UPDATED: 07:09 EDT, 25 October 2017

A self-professed 'magic man' has died after accidentally steaming himself to death in a wok while trying to 'cleanse body and soul'.

Lim Ba, also known as Black Dog, could be seen sitting in lotus position in a giant metal pan at a Chinese temple in Suala Sanglang, a small coastal village in northern Malaysia.

A lid was placed over the 68-year-old in preparation for the steaming and he clasped his hands in prayer before a fire was lit under the wok.

But after 30 minutes the performance went horribly wrong and devotees could hear Lim knocking frantically from inside.


Self-professed 'magic man' Lim Ba has died after accidentally steaming himself to death in a wok while trying to 'cleanse his body and soul' in Malaysia. He is pictured minutes before his death as a lid is lowered over his body


Lim Ba, also known as Black Dog, could be seen sitting in lotus position in a giant metal pan at a Chinese temple in Suala Sanglang, a small coastal village in northern Malaysia

The lid was raised - and Lim was found unconscious, steam billowing out around him. He was pronounced dead from major second-degree burns and a heart attack.

The bizarre end to Lim's years as a medium came during what was described as a Nine Emperor God prayer session.

The country's The Star newspaper reported Lim's youngest son, Kang Huai, 32, as saying that his father had been performing human steaming for more than 10 years, despite his family's concerns.

Kang Huai said that during the steaming sessions, rice, sweet corn and vegetarian buns would be placed inside the wok and they would also be steamed.


After 30 minutes the performance went horribly wrong and devotees could hear Lim knocking frantically from inside


The bizarre end to Lim's years as a medium came during what was described as a Nine Emperor God prayer session


The lid was raised - and Lim was found unconscious, steam billowing out around him. He was pronounced dead from major second-degree burns and a heart attack


Lim (right) had been performing human steaming for more than 10 years, despite his family's concerns

The dead man's daughter, Wei Ling 37, said that earlier on that fateful day her father had eaten only sweet potato and green bean biscuits. 'But he was his normal self and took pictures with his devotees.'

Her father's record inside the steam cover, she said, had been 75 minutes.

The Star said that when contacted in China, the President of the Federation of Taoist Associations of Malaysia, Tan Hoe Chioew, said such steaming rituals were not really part of mainstream Taoist rites.

They were more of a 'fa shu', or magic, performance.

'This "steaming man" ritual is rarely performed and I dare not comment on what preparations are needed before you perform this,' said Tan.

Such feats, he said, were done to attract believers and show the performer's physical endurance.

'But in general doing such physical endureance stunts is not advisable.'

The Nine Emperor God was not appeased.