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Thread: What makes Kung fu, Kung Fu

  1. #16
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    It's like ice cream.

    Some like vanilla.

    Some like chocolate.

    Some like butter pecan.

    Some like mint chocolate chip.

    Some like strawberry.

    Some like Ben and Jerry's.

    Some like gelato.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  2. #17
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    Kung Fu is the hard work one puts into the system of techniques they have learned, and the mental and physical benefits they attained from the said practice.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  3. #18
    in terms of usage, i'm sure most here if not all have read widely respected author, Adam Hsu's book The sword-polisher's record. there's a chapter where he tries to describe kung fu and it's usage....

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyrat View Post
    in terms of usage, i'm sure most here if not all have read widely respected author, Adam Hsu's book The sword-polisher's record. there's a chapter where he tries to describe kung fu and it's usage....
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.
    Also, I wouldn't be so sure that everyone into Kung Fu takes Adam's words as gospel.

    Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

    I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
    I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.

    No one man has the low down on Kung Fu.

    But a bunch of us together do! Even the silly stuff!
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

    I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
    I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.
    really? i didn't get any of that 'veiled racism' when i read it. could you point out some passages while i try to dig that book out of my closet.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyrat View Post
    really? i didn't get any of that 'veiled racism' when i read it. could you point out some passages while i try to dig that book out of my closet.
    yep I can. But I don't have the book with me at the moment.
    I'll peek and shoot some selections that are suspect in spirit.
    Last edited by David Jamieson; 02-15-2012 at 01:29 PM.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    yep I can. But I don't have the book with me at the moment.

    I'll peek and shoot some selections that are suspect in spirit.
    much appreciated! always good to get new perspective on things.

  8. #23
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    I think what makes KungFu so 'Kung Fu' is the way it is so interlinked with the rest of chinese culture.

    Talk about 5 element theory, qi gong, chinese medicine, chinese calligeraphy, all contain the same concepts in kung fu.

    The 5 elements work in kung fu, the direction of calligraphic strokes work in martial arts, the theory of chinese medicine works in kung fu, etc etc. All the theory and strategy from Sun Tzu on all seem to be in agreement in kung fu and all are applied.

    I know to some extent this is true for other cultures and their martial arts but it does profoundly so in kung fu. This is what gives Kung fu its flavour.


    Using the terminology correctly all 'Great Achievement of Skill' is Kung Fu (Gong Fu).

  9. #24
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    I think that what makes "Kung Fu" - KUNG FU is the theorys and principles. Many systems have that same or similar techniques, but in the end.... How you set them up, How you apply them, what types of energy or jing you use etc.

    Fighting is fighting no matter where you go. How you get there makes the deifference.

    ginosifu

  10. #25
    I was about to say all the cultural references in it (from phylosophy to medicine) but actually it wouldn't be correct as also Indian martial arts do share the same characteristic so I'll have to go with Sanjuro and Ten Tiger on the different gong meant at developping different jing.
    Pretty cool things if you ask me

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.
    Also, I wouldn't be so sure that everyone into Kung Fu takes Adam's words as gospel.

    Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

    I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
    I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.

    No one man has the low down on Kung Fu.

    But a bunch of us together do! Even the silly stuff!
    I never sensed anything racist in Hsu's writings, although I am aware that in regards to kung fu, he is very sino-centric, i.e., it must be done in just such a way; no non-Chinese exercises or influences can be permitted, or else one's kung fu becomes 'polluted,' etc. And I don't see any particular Taiwan favoring, other than the fact he grew up/learned his kung fu there, so obviously his biggest influences come from there.

    I do agree that no one man can lay claim to knowing it all about kung fu, including Adam Hsu. I also respect him as a practitioner, but I do not agree with everything he says.

    FWIW, he's come out with another book in recent years, Lone Sword Against the Cold, Cold Sky. He writes a lot more about his travels/experiences in mainland China.

  12. #27
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    The ability to take something, and through hard work, make it work for that person.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  13. #28
    Kung Fu is just a phrase used to indicate/mean different things at different times according to changing contexts. As with all contrived indicators (made up words), it is both meaningless and meaningful according to the purpose of the one using it and the inclination of the person hearing/reading it, which are often two different meanings.

    It would be beneficial to not even use the term at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by SavvySavage View Post
    Shuai Jiao predates all Kung fu styles to the point where every system can claim chin na and throwing contained in its forms.
    Just for general information, "go-ti" predates Shuai Jiao!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I never sensed anything racist in Hsu's writings, although I am aware that in regards to kung fu, he is very sino-centric, i.e., it must be done in just such a way; no non-Chinese exercises or influences can be permitted, or else one's kung fu becomes 'polluted,' etc. And I don't see any particular Taiwan favoring, other than the fact he grew up/learned his kung fu there, so obviously his biggest influences come from there.

    I do agree that no one man can lay claim to knowing it all about kung fu, including Adam Hsu. I also respect him as a practitioner, but I do not agree with everything he says.

    FWIW, he's come out with another book in recent years, Lone Sword Against the Cold, Cold Sky. He writes a lot more about his travels/experiences in mainland China.
    I'd like to add that, in my observation, Adam Hsu is extremely passionate about kung fu and wants to see it preserved for future generations. That's why he feels the various systems need to be kept 'pure.' For example, he has said (I'm not sure if this was in his first book, second book, or both) that if you punch, pull back and punch again, it isn't kung fu, because you did not work off that initial contact into a second or third continuous technique. If you kick above the waist during sparring or competition, it isn't kung fu. Etc., etc. The issue for me is, what works for me in a given situation? Everything doesn't work the way it's 'supposed to' every time. Kung fu requires a flexible mindset, even if that means stepping outside of a 'pure style characteristic' mindset, IMO.

    I think he makes valid points, and I think I see where he's coming from. But I must disagree with some of his thoughts as well. Nothing can exist or grow in a vacuum. I can pretty much guarantee that the kung fu styles he learned were not the same (when he learned them) as they were decades earlier. Everything must evolve, or it will die or become outdated. Now, if you're preserving it as a strictly cultural art form, then it's fine. If you want it to remain combat-relevant in modern times, then it must grow and learn to deal with the new circumstances/environment.

    But to each his/her own. Whether I agree or disagree with his views, I respect Adam Hsu for his dedication and skills. It isn't easy dedicating one's whole life to spreading kung fu, however way you choose to see it.

  15. #30
    just to be clear, i never said Adam Hsu's word should be taken as "gospel". i do believe that he is generally well-respected. if i recall correctly there were members on this forum that made his book required reading for their students. i think if you do a search on this forum, you'll find threads that generally speaks favorably about him (and on this forum, that is something!! .

    and yes, its always good policy to take things with a grain of salt, but i have found the things he talks about in his book to be close to what i have experienced in kung fu.
    Last edited by dirtyrat; 02-16-2012 at 10:47 AM.

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