The "SIU" Forms in Choy Lee Fut.

[hskwarrior]

The 3 hand forms of the Buk Sing CLF lineage originated with the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon as they were basically created by Hung Sing's first inheritor Chan Ngau Sing. Ping Kuen, Kau Da Kuen and Sup Ji Kuen are the product of one extremely long hand form called "Nei Wai Ba Gua Kuen or In and out Bagua Kuen (Internal-External)" as passed down to Jeung Hung Sing by the monk Ching Cho (Green Grass). These are the same forms passed down to Tam Sam by his Hung Sing Kwoon sifu Lui Chun.

In CLF you will find other forms with the Siu in the name such as Siu Ping Kuen, Siu Kau Da Kuen, Siu Lin Wan Kuen, Siu Sup Ji Kuen are basically the smaller version of certain forms or sets. In some cases the SIU forms posted on the internet are nothing more than the BIG Hoi Jong finished up with a few moves shortly after. Others are just shorter forms minus the long beginning or Hoi Jong and representative of said forms.

That is all.

Viva La Hung Sing

[crazyfistmonk]

Agreed...for the most part...lol.
The reason I pulled my original post is that the general question I was trying to get across wasn't coming through adequately (my own shortcoming in attempting to clearly explain what I was driving at). What it boils down to is my curiosity of where the Siu Ping Kuen fits into the Buk Sing curriculum. Siu Ping Kuen has been described as an entry-level form, but Ping Kuen itself is considered an advanced form. Further, Sub Jee Kuen is usually the first Buk Sing form a newer student learns. I have never before heard of Siu Ping Kuen being taught within the Buk Sing school, which only adds to the confusion. If we consider the 3 forms of Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut (Sub Jee Kuen, Kau Da Kuen, and Ping Kuen), where does the Siu Ping Kuen come into play?
Basically, that's it in a nutshell...lol.

[CLFNole]

Did not get to read the original question but I have never heard of buk sing schools mentioning siu ping kuen only ping kuen. But "siu ping kuen" in a buk sing school could just simply be a shorten version unique to their branch. I don't do buk sing but our siu ping kuen is just a short version of ping kuen or what some refer to as "dai ping kuen".

[crazyfistmonk]

CLFNole:
See, I had never heard of a Buk Sing school claiming Siu Ping Kuen either. I had always understood Siu Ping Kuen to be primarily taught through the Lee Koon Hung lineage. Here's where the issue comes in: I purchased Shane Lacey's Buk Sing DVD and the form he demonstrates is Siu Ping Kuen, which he describes as an entry level form. I understood that Ping Kuen is an advanced form, so that ruled-out the form simply being their version of Ping Kuen (otherwise, I doubt it would be described as an entry level set).
Shane may have adopted this set from his family's association with Tat Mau Wong and Lee Koon Hung, but I doubt that is the case.

[CLFNole]

I am from the Lee Koon Hung lineage (18 years). Ping Kuen really isn't an advanced set (in the Chan Heung line) although maybe some lines claim it might be so it could just be a shorter version of their ping kuen - a simplified version if you will. Buk Sing has 3 main hands and I don't think they really care about the level of difficulty from set to set they focus mostly on application and usage of technique. I have spoken with a few buk sing sifus and they could care less about forms just how to use their techniques.

We are not the only one who does siu ping kuen...others from king mui do a very similar version as do Chan Wing Fat/Chen Yong Fa's group from Australia, although they too are King Mui.

Peace

[hskwarrior]

Shane Lacey Siu Ping Kuen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypgG3TdNkA

Fut San HSK Siu Ping Kuen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2b-bgquSE

I don't do buk sing but our siu ping kuen is just a short version of ping kuen or what some refer to as "dai ping kuen".

Anytime you put SIU in front of a sets name is always gonna be the shorter version of the parent form.

Could Siu Ping Kuen be an entry form? Sure. I would consider anything with a SIU in front of it as an entry level form. You might learn the Siu Forms before learning the parent forms.

I greatly doubt any SIU forms are high level. I teach Siu Forms for all beginners.

But, maybe Sifu Nick can chime in when he gets on, as he is a student of GM D. Lacey

[CLFNole]

Good point Frank. We teach siu sup gee before we teach sup gee kow dah (dai sup gee) and siu ping kuen before ping kuen (dai ping kuen).

As far as entry level and advanced you are exactly right a "siu" form would always be lower than the parent form. In terms of level forms are taught in an order and a form is not always more difficult but their needs to be some type of sequential order taught so everyone automatically thinks the next form in a curriculum is more advanced and that is not always the case.

In the case of Shane Lacey's video shown earlier you can clearly see it is something he put together for that demo. The beginning was definately part of buk sing's ping kuen so they likely just called it "siu ping kuen" since it was a cut version.

[hskwarrior]

In the case of Shane Lacey's video shown earlier you can clearly see it is something he put together for that demo. The beginning was definately part of buk sing's ping kuen so they likely just called it "siu ping kuen" since it was a cut version.

I don't believe the siu forms have to resemble the parent form but has to have some element in it that identifies it as being connected to the parent form. And, i also believe that most SIU forms are created by later generations as introductions to the parent form like CLFNOLE mentioned.

[CLFNole]

I agree some core parts to the parent but not necessarily exact. Ours are for the most part the same sections with parts cut out but I don't think every "siu" form needs to be that way.

If I had to guess I think siu sup gee and siu ping kuen have likely been around for quite some time.

[crazyfistmonk]

It's obvious that Siu Ping Kuen is an introductory set. As mentioned above, that is why I doubt the form is simply their version of Ping Kuen, which is considered a more advanced set and is unlikely to be labeled an entry level form. If we assume that Buk Sing has 3 core forms (Sub Jee Kuen, Kau Da Kuen, and Ping Kuen), and that Sub Jee is typically taught first with Kau Da and Ping Kuen to follow, then I honestly don't understand where Siu Ping Kuen comes in. Maybe the order of the sets is unimportant, but this still leaves Siu Ping Kuen floating outside the 3 core Buk Sing forms.
Also...the Siu Ping Kuen in the link posted is not the same form demonstrated on the DVD. I'm assuming the video posted is a demo form only.

[hskwarrior]

Also...the Siu Ping Kuen in the link posted is not the same form demonstrated on the DVD. I'm assuming the video posted is a demo form only.

This could be said about all Siu forms. IMHO anytime your hear of "Siu" you should always think of it as a filler or performance form.

[CLFNole]

Most schools come up with their own entry level forms...this could be one of them. But it doesn't even have to be that it could be something he created and teaches within his curriculum. He likely teaches ping kuen too but this is something else probably unique to their school. I think you are reading into it too much.

[hskwarrior]

Most schools come up with their own entry level forms...this could be one of them. But it doesn't even have to be that it could be something he created and teaches within his curriculum. He likely teaches ping kuen too but this is something else probably unique to their school. I think you are reading into it too much.

exactly. If you already have Ping Kuen, Kau Da and Sup Ji Kuen, then the SIU forms are just cake. but if you learn the parent form, its always good to learn the smaller version of it too just for demo's or competition.

[crazyfistmonk]

Agreed. But I'm still curious as hell as to where the Siu Ping Kuen fits in to their curriculum. It's quite a lengthy set, too. Maybe someone from the Fremont school needs to chime in and set me straight...lol.

[CLFNole]

Either that or create your own "siu" forms to teach your students and ease them into longer or more difficult forms. Or for just demo purposes.