CSL Sparring Clip

[Alan Orr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP-DdxkEV0Y

Nice of Clip of my student Sai sparring with Andy.

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP-DdxkEV0Y

Nice of Clip of my student Sai sparring with Andy.

Sure you posted the right clip, it looks like two guys boxing with low round kicks....

[Phil Redmond]

Sure you posted the right clip, it looks like two guys boxing with low round kicks....

My Wing Chun uses low and mid-level round kicks and you do the best you can with gloves on. At least they are mixing it up for real. More Wing Chun people should mix it up then we'll all be united regarding fighting someone trying to hit you for real. But it seems as if most WC people are stuck on demos with compliant partners thinking they are doing a real "martial" art.

[Phil Redmond]

I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most of the famous names in the Wing Chun community have never fought extensively against resisting opponents. And if they did or do they wouldn't be pulling off the "Wing Chun" techniques non fighters expect to see in a "real" fight.

[Alan Orr]

Sure you posted the right clip, it looks like two guys boxing with low round kicks....

It is two guys boxing. CSL Wing Chun Chinese Boxing Skills. This is our wing chun! We train we real pressure, not just demos or head guards where you can hot without any defence. We have all sort of kicks in wig chun, it is kung fu, kicks are not limited. The skill of the punching and kicking is the art not the training drills.

[Graham H]

I agree and thats why I call beef stew, fish and chips...............curry i call chicken kung po and why I call my cat a dog. Same thing really.

Wing Chun today is fundamentally any system that incorporates the names SLT, CK, BJ etc even though the meaning and reasons behind these forms can be totally different. Just because you guys put that into competitions you think it justifies whatever you want to call it............namely Wing Chun. If I wanted to learn how to kick box and I lived in your area then maybe your scholl would be a good choice but I don't. I like to practice Wing Chun which isnt what I see in your videos and the way you explain it contradicts everything I think. If I was to come to your school and you asked me if I had any previous MA experience I would have to say yes mainly Wing Chun and then I would have to spend the next weeks, months, years relearning a totally different menthod but still say I practice Wing Chun. Does that make sense?

Call it Alan Orr mixed martial arts but calling it Wing Chun is wrong. Its not Wing Chun its kickboxing. Whether it works or not is irrelevant and just because you guys have trophies and fight cards does not add weight to anything.

A student of yours contacted me last year as he was interested in learning the WSLPB method and though e mails and conversations I concuded that he knew as much about Wing Chun as I know about quantum physics. Although I never got to have an opinion about his fighting skills as he never turned up. He may have beat me into the wall but he still knows nothing about Wing Chun. Bit like you really.

The time you waste replying to this Alan could be better spent doing other things so don't bother. I tend not to log on anymore because I can't stand to see what a farce Wing Chun has become from the lies of you, BoneTiger and Phil Redmond.

So why you guys are posting videos of stuff and stroke each others ego and have pops at Kevin Gledhill when to me he is one of a small group of people on this forum who actually makes sense I have better things to do like watch the paint dry.

Toodle pip!

G

[Jansingsang]

It is two guys boxing. CSL Wing Chun Chinese Boxing Skills. This is our wing chun! We train we real pressure, not just demos or head guards where you can hot without any defence. We have all sort of kicks in wig chun, it is kung fu, kicks are not limited. The skill of the punching and kicking is the art not the training drills.

All i see here is two guys doing kickboxing Imho there is no concepts of the wing chun at play here. As for the kicks these types don't exist within wing chun or there be in the forms nothing more to add here

[Alan Orr]

I agree and thats why I call beef stew, fish and chips...............curry i call chicken kung po and why I call my cat a dog. Same thing really.

Wing Chun today is fundamentally any system that incorporates the names SLT, CK, BJ etc even though the meaning and reasons behind these forms can be totally different. Just because you guys put that into competitions you think it justifies whatever you want to call it............namely Wing Chun. If I wanted to learn how to kick box and I lived in your area then maybe your scholl would be a good choice but I don't. I like to practice Wing Chun which isnt what I see in your videos and the way you explain it contradicts everything I think. If I was to come to your school and you asked me if I had any previous MA experience I would have to say yes mainly Wing Chun and then I would have to spend the next weeks, months, years relearning a totally different menthod but still say I practice Wing Chun. Does that make sense?

Call it Alan Orr mixed martial arts but calling it Wing Chun is wrong. Its not Wing Chun its kickboxing. Whether it works or not is irrelevant and just because you guys have trophies and fight cards does not add weight to anything.

A student of yours contacted me last year as he was interested in learning the WSLPB method and though e mails and conversations I concuded that he knew as much about Wing Chun as I know about quantum physics. Although I never got to have an opinion about his fighting skills as he never turned up. He may have beat me into the wall but he still knows nothing about Wing Chun. Bit like you really.

The time you waste replying to this Alan could be better spent doing other things so don't bother. I tend not to log on anymore because I can't stand to see what a farce Wing Chun has become from the lies of you, BoneTiger and Phil Redmond.

So why you guys are posting videos of stuff and stroke each others ego and have pops at Kevin Gledhill when to me he is one of a small group of people on this forum who actually makes sense I have better things to do like watch the paint dry.

Toodle pip!

G

Excellent post!! Just shows you have no idea of how 'training' wing chun becomes a applied Chinese boxing system. I have said this so many times. Our forms and Chi Sao are training for application. You don't see a boxer bring a speed ball or heavy bag into the ring.

Keep up your demo training lol

I will be posting a lot more clips and training questions. If you hate them so much them don't want them! I have lots of emails from people saying they love them - real wing chun - real understanding - not just chain punching dummys.

One or my students contacted you haha got a name? At least I can answer that then. Otherwise it means nothing. Most my students would have no idea what you talk about for sure. We teach wing chun thats different to you.

So if you if its not wing chun that you know, it must be wrong and not wing chun... right of course.

[Alan Orr]

All i see here is two guys doing kickboxing Imho there is no concepts of the wing chun at play here. As for the kicks these types don't exist within wing chun or there be in the forms nothing more to add here

Not all wing chun is a move from a form.

The principles of wing chun are fist and hip connection. Structure of power development. Weight control. Some things are hard to see if you do not train that way. Timing of movement.

Try to grow passed the 'where is bong and tan' they teach you your awareness of position - not blocks. When you are in close you will clinch and guide with the correct line for movement if you understand the shapes of wing chun. Problem is a lot of wing chun people are not sparring and testing.

[Alan Orr]

I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most of the famous names in the Wing Chun community have never fought extensively against resisting opponents. And if they did or do they wouldn't be pulling off the "Wing Chun" techniques non fighters expect to see in a "real" fight.

Your right Phil 100%

[Alan Orr]

Graham h -

I like to practice Wing Chun which isnt what I see in your videos and the way you explain it contradicts everything I think. If I was to come to your school and you asked me if I had any previous MA experience I would have to say yes mainly Wing Chun and then I would have to spend the next weeks, months, years relearning a totally different menthod but still say I practice Wing Chun. Does that make sense?


Alan - No it does not make sense. What I explain contradicts everything you think - So what? You have proved what? You know what? You train with who?

Yes you would have to relearn everything if you came to my school as what I teach is based on dealing with real pressure from real fighters.

We have the Chi Sao event at seni this year, why not enter? If you have good wing chun you should be able to hold you own under some pressure right?

[Buddha_Fist]

We have the Chi Sao event at seni this year, why not enter? If you have good wing chun you should be able to hold you own under some pressure right?

Why do a drill competition to begin with? The different lineages use Chi Sao as a platform to train different things, even though it may look somewhat similar. It's like matching up two boxers of different clubs in a jumping jack competition. If fighting is the end goal of all of your training and drills, what at the end matters, the bottom line, then why waste time on a competition based on a drill? You can argue all what you want about jumping jacks or Chi-Sao being elemental to training and about their significance, but it does not change the bottom line.

[Sean66]

I agree, Buddha Fist. Chi sao competitions are pointless.

Here is what they turn into here in France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqhwhZ30qLE

[Alan Orr]

Why do a drill competition to begin with? The different lineages use Chi Sao as a platform to train different things, even though it may look somewhat similar. It's like matching up two boxers of different clubs in a jumping jack competition. If fighting is the end goal of all of your training and drills, what at the end matters, the bottom line, then why waste time on a competition based on a drill? You can argue all what you want about jumping jacks or Chi-Sao being elemental to training and about their significance, but it does not change the bottom line.

Good post in terms of your point. Chi Sao is a very advance level of developing from drills to application level. It is the bridge between the two.

So if your chi sao skill should be able too control some pressure and keep balance and structure.

The idea of the event is to test basics on the same terms. Just as BJJ is not the same as MMA. Striking changes BJJ applications, but BJJ still works. Its different with the Gi and without, but in the end its all ways to grow.

Wing Chun often has people telling your wrong and their right. But in the end if you have way to prove that then its pointless.

My guys have done that in MMA, Boxing, kickboxing and Chi Sao events. Some may say wing chun is for the street etc etc all cool. But beating unskilled people is not a good test or fighting on the street is not a great idea. Thats why most arts have controlled comps to test the basic of the systems they train.

Not everyone wants to train for that level of sport combat. So the Chi Sao event is a good way for more people to have a chance to test and like. The people who entered last time loved it. Only a few guys on the sidelines had negative things to say.

[Alan Orr]

I agree, Buddha Fist. Chi sao competitions are pointless.

Here is what they turn into here in France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqhwhZ30qLE

I think head guards change the game too much. but at least they are trying.

These are from the last event -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDEPNCo8AbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGiAoMQSRtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaHpj...eature=related

In the end you don't have to like it. Its for some and not others.