CSL Sparring Clip

[Phil Redmond]

The reason for what you call "devolution" may be because boxing MT and grappling actually work in the ring, while the others only seem to work in some of the fictional deadly streetfights quoted here. . . .

Even though people get hurt in ring fights I guess they don't count Andrew.

. . .There's probably a local MMA comp you guys with the "highly evolved" arts can enter. It is open to all stylists. Enter and win, then criticize, otherwise STFU.. . .

Why would someone want to test their art in the most realistic way outside of fighting in the street?

. . .Roughly translated: The average WC practitioner will get his a$$ kicked up between his shoulder blades by the average sportfighter. .

You and I both know why.

. .I think WC is for you. It allows you to say whatever you like on the web without having to back it up.

Gooooooal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUTzr...eature=related

[GlennR]

I know for a fact that Wing Chun "can" look like Wing Chun in real fighting on many different levels. Structure, "sticking", trapping, timing, distance....the whole nine yards. This isn't boasting, just pointing out that I have seen and experienced it first hand.

Sport fighting does not blend with WC strategy and principles very well. There are many contraindications to the system. For example, I have a buddy who I spar with every now and then. I'll play the game with him, attack/withdrawal, because my goal isn't to really hurt him. But every now and then he gets out of hand. In those situations I usually don't withdrawal and end up hurting him because I'll explode into him the way you're supposed to with WC. Sport fighting is playing a game that is not your game, and the irony of it is that while people say that they're pressure testing, it's very obvious they're trying to avoid getting hit. WC doesn't work that way. If you withdrawal on your own without your opponent moving you back for you, you're playing their game, not yours.

Just look at nature to see how animals fight. Almost all of them stay put when fighting and only move back when they are "moved" back....

Most of you will probably think it's easy for me to say this in words and I understand that. But WC isn't for everyone and probably should be for far less people than it already is IMO...

I was going to reply to this ,but Anerlich has probably said all that i was going to.

[Phil Redmond]

I was going to reply to this ,but Anerlich has probably said all that i was going to.

Yep . . . .

[WC1277]

Where did I say anything about WC being the king all, be all? Anerlich, Glenn, Phil, all you mma wannabes have no idea what you're talking about. Much less, what Wing Chun is and isn't! All I implied was that WC doesn't meld well with sport fighting. I didn't say it was 'more deadly' or better or whatever other threat to your manhood it could be. I don't know why it's such a hard concept to grasp. You can try all day trying to "make it work for you" in your supposed pressure testing. But that is not what WC is, I emphasize is not.

All WC is at the end of the day is structure. I don't think WC in action looks any more like chi sao than any of you do. But it does have a very specific structure. It's no different from Mike Tyson's uppercut or Ali's momentary rooted foot when he lands a KO punch. They're all examples of good structure. And that's it, that's all WC is, but it's a recognizeable structure. I can tell you right now, Phil's guys don't have it, Alan's guys don't have it(although he, himself has it sometimes), and there's a pretty **** good chance Glenn and Anerlich don't have it either. Their ignorance betrays them.

Guys like you are the ones who not only give WC a bad name trying to fit a square in a round hole but are also the perfect example of taking an "idea" and destroying it. If you want to "test" your "version" of WC, why don't you do it like the giants before you and ACTUALLY fight in real fights, otherwise go join the mma forum. I know I have a choice to be on this forum and I chose to be, but it doesn't mean the pathetic examples of WC practitioners doesn't get to me sometimes considering I've shared with all of you ideas that are more accurate and true with regards to WC than any of you will ever have the opportunity to hear.

So Good luck and enjoy your delusions...

[Jake104]

Jake, you internet warrior, give it up. Anybody can see you're way too cheap to spring for a movie.

BTW, bring your headgear to the park and I'm game to give it a try again. Or if you prefer I'll bring the Escrima gear! --The geez

Wow, why the sudden change of heart? For the last 7 mOnths you have been making excuses as to why sparring is to dangerous. Something about concussions and some study you read or seen on tv. The last few times Tiny and i sparred you wanted nothing to do with it. You sat on the sidelines and watched.
Now on a internet forum you act a different way? Come on bro, quit being fake.

This in a nutshell is the problem with WC. Way too many fakes. Wing Chun is a joke because legitamit folks who actually use there art like Phil , Allan and others are constantly blasted by the non fighting, nut riding, fan boy, fakes like yourself and others on these boards.

[LoneTiger108]

I tend not to log on anymore because I can't stand to see what a farce Wing Chun has become from the lies of you, BoneTiger and Phil Redmond.

Awww G!! You make me feel so sad.

I wasn't going to post on this thread, because although I respect Alan and what his guys are doing we are simply not on the same page with regards to our Wing Chun understanding. I think we have come to understand that of eachother and just avoid conversation!

BUT to even 'suggest' that I am a liar is a bit rich coming from you

I have never lied here, never will. And I would hope you haven't either because all we can all do is the best with the knowledge that our Sifus have shared with us. As honestly as we can.

Once you lose that you would lose everything.

So please, grow up man...

[trubblman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP-DdxkEV0Y

Nice of Clip of my student Sai sparring with Andy.

One of the problems with this vdo, is that however effective it looks as sparring -- and I will admit it is great practice for fighting -- I could have done this type of sparring without ever having gone to one martial arts class. For instance at 0:15 seconds what VT punch was that? To me that was your garden variety street type lean in straight punch.

[JPinAZ]

Wow, why the sudden change of heart? For the last 7 mOnths you have been making excuses as to why sparring is to dangerous. Something about concussions and some study you read or seen on tv. The last few times Tiny and i sparred you wanted nothing to do with it. You sat on the sidelines and watched.
Now on a internet forum you act a different way? Come on bro, quit being fake.

This in a nutshell is the problem with WC. Way too many fakes. Wing Chun is a joke because legitamit folks who actually use there art like Phil , Allan and others are constantly blasted by the non fighting, nut riding, fan boy, fakes like yourself and others on these boards.

Hey, sounds like I'm missing out out on all the fun! When andwhere do you guys get together? Have room for one more?

[Chadderz]

Well I think, and this is totally personal opinion of course, that a lot of Wing Chun practitioners have this notion of "form over function". So you will stick with your side-on goat stance, with your hands near your chest, thinking that no matter what comes, it won't get past your arms.

In reality of course, because you have never sparred with anybody ever, you have all this self confidence, and you promptly get pounded by somebody who HAS actually been hit in the head before. It's called pressure testing, and it is the most essential part of training for self-defence, by a mile.

Now because Alan is trying to actually apply WC to competition AND self defence you are all very unhappy because he found out that for practical purposes he dumped the (rather terrible) stance, and only uses it as a beginners training method.

What you, who claim to teach WC, should do, is actually spar REGULARLY, and see how much your style needs improving. THEN you should all go and spar with people from OTHER styles, and compare notes, and see what needs changing.

After you've done all this, please come back and post videos, because nothing would make me happier than seeing good WC working under pressure. (:

[GlennR]

Where did I say anything about WC being the king all, be all? Anerlich, Glenn, Phil, all you mma wannabes have no idea what you're talking about. Much less, what Wing Chun is and isn't! All I implied was that WC doesn't meld well with sport fighting. I didn't say it was 'more deadly' or better or whatever other threat to your manhood it could be. I don't know why it's such a hard concept to grasp. You can try all day trying to "make it work for you" in your supposed pressure testing. But that is not what WC is, I emphasize is not.

Oh grow up. Your story of the death match with your mate was all about implying that when you activate your deadly WC then the sport fighter doesnt have a chance. Incidentally, your understanding of sport fighting is ordinary at best from what you write.

All WC is at the end of the day is structure. I don't think WC in action looks any more like chi sao than any of you do. But it does have a very specific structure. It's no different from Mike Tyson's uppercut or Ali's momentary rooted foot when he lands a KO punch. They're all examples of good structure. And that's it, that's all WC is, but it's a recognizeable structure. I can tell you right now, Phil's guys don't have it, Alan's guys don't have it(although he, himself has it sometimes), and there's a pretty **** good chance Glenn and Anerlich don't have it either. Their ignorance betrays them

.

Structure?? Really? Who would have thought.
Read my posts regarding Alan's style, even one from several years ago when everyone said it wasn't WC, and i said forget the strikes... watch his structure.
I show people at my MT/boxing gym the differences in application of the different structures.... application, you should try it sometime.
So i think i have a fair understanding as do Phil, Andrew and plenty of the guys that dont adhere to WC mantra like yourself.
Oh, and you dont understand Ali's punch either. Learn some boxing before you profess expertise.

Guys like you are the ones who not only give WC a bad name trying to fit a square in a round hole but are also the perfect example of taking an "idea" and destroying it. If you want to "test" your "version" of WC, why don't you do it like the giants before you and ACTUALLY fight in real fights, otherwise go join the mma forum. I know I have a choice to be on this forum and I chose to be, but it doesn't mean the pathetic examples of WC practitioners doesn't get to me sometimes considering I've shared with all of you ideas that are more accurate and true with regards to WC than any of you will ever have the opportunity to hear.

I'll quote John McEnroe here...... Are you serious???

So let me get this right (ill use me as an example but in sure the other wannabes" have similar stories), i walk into a MT gym 3-4 years ago to have a look and see what its all about. Tell them im a WC guy and can i join in. Take a class, then another and im into it.
Fast forward to now and obviously sparring is a large part of the focus. But here's the thing, im the guy that does things a bit differently, structures different (wow!) use of space is a bit different, clinch work is a bit different...... and its all WC.
And when these guys get kicked or punched, they get controlled in the clinch, and so on, they'll say "that WC's OK isn't it" or "i thought WC didn't work" or "i didn't think WC guys fight" or "how the hell did you do that?".

Seeing the light sunshine??
US "wannabes" arent the problem.... its delusional clowns like you that are
And as for this.."why don't you do it like the giants before you and ACTUALLY fight in real fights" ... i live in a civilised society where the only way to practice legally what im doing is what im doing now. And from some of the clips ive seen of the "giants era" ill stick with what im doing now.

So Good luck and enjoy your delusions...

No luck needed when you train hard and realistically pal.... oh, good luck

[anerlich]

If you want to "test" your "version" of WC, why don't you do it like the giants before you and ACTUALLY fight in real fights

I thought that was what Alan was doing.

I don't need to "test" any "version" of anything. I am quite happy with my WC training. I'm arguing with your claims and "epiphanies".

I am not making claims of being able to trounce a local MMA trainee who, for reasons of either masochism or pity, has taken on the doomed-for-disappointment task of befriending you. And for some reason extrapolating that out to being able to handle anyone from another style, pro fighters, soccer hooligans, criminals, the entire SAS regiment, etc.

I'm unlikely to seek fights at 57, and at the moment rather than trying to emulate the giants before me, I have my hands full dealing with the delusions of adequacy, and wholesale misunderstanding of MMA training and tactics, of the pygmies before me such as yourself.

Good luck with your deathmatches and streetfights! Find a good lawyer, insurance company and make sure you have top of the range medical cover. Maybe do some jail visitations now for when you need someone to watch your back on the inside later after the legal karma from all the corpses you leave on the pavement arena catches up with you.

Post your accomplishments on Youtube - get arrested and spend some time in prison where you'll really learn about keepin' it real as the supreme WC badass you must be because you beat up your amateur MMA-training friend!

Their ignorance betrays them.

Pots and kettles.

[WC1277]

Oh grow up. Your story of the death match with your mate was all about implying that when you activate your deadly WC then the sport fighter doesnt have a chance. Incidentally, your understanding of sport fighting is ordinary at best from what you write.

.

Structure?? Really? Who would have thought.
Read my posts regarding Alan's style, even one from several years ago when everyone said it wasn't WC, and i said forget the strikes... watch his structure.
I show people at my MT/boxing gym the differences in application of the different structures.... application, you should try it sometime.
So i think i have a fair understanding as do Phil, Andrew and plenty of the guys that dont adhere to WC mantra like yourself.
Oh, and you dont understand Ali's punch either. Learn some boxing before you profess expertise.



I'll quote John McEnroe here...... Are you serious???

So let me get this right (ill use me as an example but in sure the other wannabes" have similar stories), i walk into a MT gym 3-4 years ago to have a look and see what its all about. Tell them im a WC guy and can i join in. Take a class, then another and im into it.
Fast forward to now and obviously sparring is a large part of the focus. But here's the thing, im the guy that does things a bit differently, structures different (wow!) use of space is a bit different, clinch work is a bit different...... and its all WC.
And when these guys get kicked or punched, they get controlled in the clinch, and so on, they'll say "that WC's OK isn't it" or "i thought WC didn't work" or "i didn't think WC guys fight" or "how the hell did you do that?".

Seeing the light sunshine??
US "wannabes" arent the problem.... its delusional clowns like you that are
And as for this.."why don't you do it like the giants before you and ACTUALLY fight in real fights" ... i live in a civilised society where the only way to practice legally what im doing is what im doing now. And from some of the clips ive seen of the "giants era" ill stick with what im doing now.



No luck needed when you train hard and realistically pal.... oh, good luck

Like I said, you and your compatriots can go join the mma forum then. None of you have offered next to nothing as far as sharing actual WC knowledge on this forum. Just a bunch of little cry babies who only accept "pressure testing" i.e. sparring, sport fighting, as undeniable proof of effectiveness. Apparently no one can disagree with your "methods" of proving. Let me ask you something smart ass. Should a monster truck race in NASCAR? Should a NASCAR compete in a monster truck arena? Should a skateboarder use rollerblades in a skateboard contest? Should a rollerblader use a skateboard? Should professional baseball players use aluminum bats? Should swimmers be not allowed to shave? Should a gun be allowed at a knife fight? Should a samurai sword be allowed at fist fight?

Why don't any of these seemingly same catergory things go together genius? Just because WC uses fists and feet like your beloved mma doesn't mean it would fare well in an mma bout. Obviously it hasnt! Does that mean its worthless or ineffective because it's a negative in sport fighting? I guess NASCAR's should be called worthless then and everything else above I stated. Different tools for different games smart one. Instead of destroying and containdicting everything WC is, I'd rather keep my tool for its appropriate use. You're an idiot. It's no different from destroying your pocketknife to screw in a Phillips screw because you're too dumb to realize there's a thing called a screwdriver for that.

Like I said before....Good luck with your delusions....

[anerlich]

Just because WC uses fists and feet like your beloved mma doesn't mean it would fare well in an mma bout. Obviously it hasnt!

Obviously and evidently.

Does that mean its worthless or ineffective because it's a negative in sport fighting?

No one said it was. You basically said MMA, MT, and grappling were crap. When you got called on it you spazzed out with "you guys are idiots" and "none of you understand Wing Chun because you disagree with ME! WAAAAAHHHHH!"

Just a bunch of little cry babies

Holy crap, look who's talking.

Like I said, you and your compatriots can go join the mma forum then.

I think I'll stay here and push your buttons some more. Too easy.

[WC1277]

Obviously and evidently.



No one said it was. You basically said MMA, MT, and grappling were crap. When you got called on it you spazzed out with "you guys are idiots" and "none of you understand Wing Chun because you disagree with ME! WAAAAAHHHHH!"



Holy crap, look who's talking.

Where did I say mma was crap? Quote me then?

[anerlich]

I paraphrased. If you feel you've been misquoted, too bad for you.

You made a number of personal attacks and drew unfounded conclusions about people who disagreed with you, and then frothed at the mouth with that NASCAR / monster truck rubbish, so excuse me if I laugh at you for trying to claim some sort of higher moral ground, superior rhetorical skill, or precision in argument.