Alan Orr Questions 4 - Chain Punching

[WC1277]

But the idea is to break free from drills like chi sao, and start getting it to work in sparring and real life

Still should be good structure though. I've already said many times I don't think real fighting looks like chi sao. But there is only so much creative freedom one can do with angles, structure, and WC timing and still be within that realm....

[Chadderz]

Still should be good structure though. I've already said many times I don't think real fighting looks like chi sao. But there is only so much creative freedom one can do with angles, structure, and WC timing and still be within that realm....

I'm not saying that it's not good structure, I'm saying try and keep that structure in sparring, or a live scenario. I guarantee it doesn't look like chi sao. xD

[WingChunABQ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2chOzs-2Xg&nomobile=1

This is one of my favorite videos of Chi Sao on Youtube. Super clean, well exectued, really good structure, fine execution.

And, you know, mullets.

[WingChunABQ]

But the idea is to break free from drills like chi sao, and start getting it to work in sparring and real life

Not unless you need to use those drills for development.

[Chadderz]

Not unless you need to use those drills for development.

Yeah, but a lot of Wing Chun guys get stuck in the trap of training ONLY in drills.

[Phil Redmond]

Yeah, but a lot of Wing Chun guys get stuck in the trap of training ONLY in drills.

That's mostly what I've seen in my 40+ years in Wing Chun and I include ALL lineages in that statement. It's only a few that will leave the nest and fly.

[WingChunABQ]

That's mostly what I've seen in my 40+ years in Wing Chun and I include ALL lineages in that statement. It's only a few that will leave the nest and fly.

Me too (though I'm only pushing 16 years in the art ). Although, the ones that do fly and make the art their own are amazing.

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people try to skip over drills/ concepts/ conditioning and end up with shoddy Wing Chun. I suppose the trick is knowing when to step out of the nest.

[Frost]

We all know Frost hasn't got a clue about VT, so its pointless showing him anyway

According to you know one here does have a clue, apart from you and the other pb n*triders, strange how you care so much to post every day about how clueless we all are, mock others when they actually have the b&lls to post clips of themselves when all you can post is clips of your mancrush doing chi sao and pole work……and yet you cant find the time to post one clip of yourself doing anything…and i mean anything

Seriously why do you bother

[k gledhill]

According to you know one here does have a clue, apart from you and the other pb n*triders, strange how you care so much to post every day about how clueless we all are, mock others when they actually have the b&lls to post clips of themselves when all you can post is clips of your mancrush doing chi sao and pole work……and yet you cant find the time to post one clip of yourself doing anything…and i mean anything

Seriously why do you bother

Hit a nerve have we, Mr troll ? its a VT forum numb n*utz , I DO VT, DO YOU ?

[Frost]

Hit a nerve have we, Mr troll ? its a VT forum numb n*utz , I DO VT, DO YOU ?

Actually its a wing chun forum, and since you seem to think your VT is so different from everyone elses why dont you ask them to start a VT one

hit a nerve, Lol if you had i might have made a few cracks about your obsession with PBs poll...i just happen to think your behaviour is both funny as h*ll and sad as f&ck, trying to convice people you have the secret wing chun without having the b*lls to post any clips

Troll behaviour 101
tell everyone they are doing the art wrongly
never post any clips of yourself in action
Always talk down about other lineages and say yours in the correct one and only your lineage has the real art

who does that sound like here?

[k gledhill]

Actually its a wing chun forum, and since you seem to think your VT is so different from everyone elses why dont you ask them to start a VT one

hit a nerve, Lol if you had i might have made a few cracks about your obsession with PBs poll...i just happen to think your behaviour is both funny as h*ll and sad as f&ck, trying to convice people you have the secret wing chun without having the b*lls to post any clips

Troll behaviour 101
tell everyone they are doing the art wrongly
never post any clips of yourself in action
Always talk down about other lineages and say yours in the correct one and only your lineage has the real art

who does that sound like here?

Ah yes, Frost standard response to getting owned on a forum..RANT..

He doesnt even train in Wing Chun Ving Tsun Wing Tzun Wong Chong..

OWNED !

[Frost]

How can I be owned when I freely admit what arts I have done and haven’t done? Do you engage your brain before typing?
When have I ever said I do wing chun, I have said before I did some wing chun back in the day and pop in here for a laugh because its probably the funniest forum here (unintentionally)
And you are a classic example of why the forum is so funny, why the likes of Alan post their clips here is beyond me

So how about posting your clips for the wing chun guys here to Critique, or do we have to wait for hell to freeze over for that to happen

[Wayfaring]

I know this isn't a beloved sparring video of yours but it shows many good examples of how "our" structure is or can be applied including the short extended biu sau. It's long, many good parts, a few ok parts, but none the less, if you watch carefully, you'll see that our hands almost always stay center and our bodies turn them....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2chOzs-2Xg&nomobile=1

OK. So I think I see where you guys are going with this structure wise. Many times the inner hand gets collapsed in to the chest. In "our" WC structure that's undesirable. You guys seem to try to change the angle to free it up. I can accept that as a workable alternative. I can see how a collapsed elbow half extended biu could by changing the angle could provide the extension needed to give it structure.

Believe it or not we do a lot of that type of thing in BJJ - if something is pinned change the angle to free it.

I still think it can be problematic like around :46 to :48 of that clip - the aikido wrist lock attempt there is not very realistic and I don't think would hold up to harder pressure.

[Wayfaring]

Now, looking at Alan's demonstration of 'wu sau' with his hand covering head action, I would say no, that is not wu sau from our above descriptions. His box has already been entered, his elbow is raised (so no hip connection) and no fwd wrist energy is being employed because in reality he's pulling he had back and it's collapsing to his forehead.
Yes, this is an acceptable basic defensive covering tool he is using because his control of space and timing has been compramised to the point it's his best/last option, but it's not wu sau.

Sure - agree. The structure in that cover actually does come from connecting the hand to the head and absorbing the strike on the forearm. Without the elbow connection to the hip, unless another support structure is employed like that the crashing power of the punch will get through and cause problems.

I'm not a purist enough to argue the meaning of "wu" beyond the concept of "inner hand".

[Wayfaring]

I am the fat guy doing my secret KJG Wing Chun in this fight ,can you see my VT skills ?

CLIP

I think k is jealous because Curly has better WC than he does. That's why he keeps posting that picture...