Alan Orr Questions 4 - Chain Punching

[Alan Orr]

haha, you're so right. How can anyone know what they are doing or have a valid opinion that may differ from yours if they haven't posted up a clip of themselves on youtube?
(BTW, just because someone posts a clip doesn't mean what they are doing is WC simply because they titled it as such. Youtube is full of garbage WC clips. Not saying yours are/aren't but a clip doesn't validate one's knowledge of WC)

IMO, a lot of what you do goes against many basic WC principles from my understanding. If what you do works for you, great, but I don't need to flood youtube with a bunch of my training clips to offer my view (which I usually back up with examples) or have my opinion count.
You'll have to excuse me if I didn't follow your 'new rules' by not doing it in a video clip - I thought this was a forum for written words and views..

Thats cool. Yes there is a lot of bad wing chun on youtube for sure.

I don't really think everyone has to post a clip to have a view. I think my point is if you feel so strongly about a clip you and have to on and on about it - then you should post a clip to show why. Otherwise is a bit pointless.

In terms of respect. I think respect is earned and I like to think I talk to people in the same way they talk to me.

[Alan Orr]

I agree.

Some of the most productive exchanges I've ever seen between martial artists were when my teachers would bring in teachers of other styles to share their methods with us - radically different approaches to acheive the same ends. The respect you're talking about was alive.

I currently have the luck to train at a gym where lots of other stylists train too, and all the teachers there actively share their knowledge with each other. Good stuff.

The piddle matches only seem to happen on the internet, where there's no danger of provoking a physical conflict. Funny how that works.

Nice post.

[Yoshiyahu]

Traditional train punching isn't going to work against ANYBODY. Except other guys who think it works ironically enough....

I betcha I could use traditional chain punching against you joined with moving horse an it would work just fine!

[Phil Redmond]

Many thanks.

Funny really Phil and I have different systems and different ideas but we have common ground in the way we think about martial arts development and training. We also have always been able to chat and talk about stuff with no problem and have become friends. Is that not what a forum should produce? wing chun forum - all wing chun guys - building wing chun? That is martial respect.


Maybe we should only listen to ideas from guys that take the 5 mins to post some clips to share rather that the guys who waste our time telling us we are wrong - even though we have shown that it works and why.

Exactly, I don't believe in that secret crap or superiority crap. You and I are different Alan but we pressure test what we do. We can learn from each other. I have never ridiculed another WC person even though I've seen some things that indicate the person never tried his "Chun" against a resisting opponent. I believe the secret is hard training.

[Phil Redmond]

Alan, I talked to your Sifu tonight and told him that he should be proud of you. I hope to see him in L.A. in a few weeks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is quite interesting to me that, even though Alan and Phil have different views and come from different lineages and even disagree on certain things, that their approach to WC - pressure testing it- has brought them to common ground.
As it has with other people who do the same thing-pressure test- their WC.
People who do that-pressure test their WC- always find common ground AND seem to work well together regardless of where they "came from".
There is a lesson there...

[WingChunABQ]

Yup. It's hard to talk BS with a mouthful of blood and loose teeth.

[k gledhill]

Yup. It's hard to talk BS with a mouthful of blood and loose teeth.

never a truer word has been said.... "its your nose, not mine" , was a phrase my old sifu would use.

[WingChunABQ]

never a truer word has been said.... "its your nose, not mine" , was a phrase my old sifu would use.

My sifu once said, "If somebody says there are no absolutes, hit them. Hard."

[Wayfaring]

Exactly, I don't believe in that secret crap or superiority crap. You and I are different Alan but we pressure test what we do. We can learn from each other. I have never ridiculed another WC person even though I've seen some things that indicate the person never tried his "Chun" against a resisting opponent. I believe the secret is hard training.

Yes, everybody has a plan until they get hit.

It is honestly encouraging to see good viewpoints like this around. It makes me feel better about the likelihood of WC being around in 50 yrs...

[JPinAZ]

Thats cool. Yes there is a lot of bad wing chun on youtube for sure.

I don't really think everyone has to post a clip to have a view. I think my point is if you feel so strongly about a clip you and have to on and on about it - then you should post a clip to show why. Otherwise is a bit pointless.

In terms of respect. I think respect is earned and I like to think I talk to people in the same way they talk to me.

Cool, and I hear what you're saying, but I also dissagree with you on some of it. This isn't a video hosting forum. If you expect people to use videos for replies, that's what youtube is for.
But you started a thread on a text-based forum, so I don't think it's pointless to 'discuss' the clip here without a video of our own. BTW, discussing is different than going 'on and on' as you put it.

If you didn't want discussion, then why the he11 post your clips up here in the first place? If not for self glorification (not saying it's the case), then you should be more than willing and comfortable discussing with both those that agree with what you do and those that don't - comes with putting yourself out there. If not, then I think you creating this thread here is rather pointless.

On another note, I'm with anyone saying that you have to pressure test on a regular basis your art if you are going to have any chance at developing any real skill - that goes for any MA. I would also agree a lot of TMA's schools (WC or otherwise) have lost focus of this idea. And, while I give credit to those putting up clips others to see (and crituqe), I don't think hard training or pressure testing your art it anything 'secret', new or inventive. Maybe something that is sometimes ignored by those afraid to have there secrure world challenged, but not some mystery only a few are now discovering .

[Alan Orr]

Cool, and I hear what you're saying, but I also dissagree with you on some of it. This isn't a video hosting forum. If you expect people to use videos for replies, that's what youtube is for.
But you started a thread on a text-based forum, so I don't think it's pointless to 'discuss' the clip here without a video of our own. BTW, discussing is different than going 'on and on' as you put it.

If you didn't want discussion, then why the he11 post your clips up here in the first place? If not for self glorification (not saying it's the case), then you should be more than willing and comfortable discussing with both those that agree with what you do and those that don't - comes with putting yourself out there. If not, then I think you creating this thread here is rather pointless.

On another note, I'm with anyone saying that you have to pressure test on a regular basis your art if you are going to have any chance at developing any real skill - that goes for any MA. I would also agree a lot of TMA's schools (WC or otherwise) have lost focus of this idea. And, while I give credit to those putting up clips others to see (and crituqe), I don't think hard training or pressure testing your art it anything 'secret', new or inventive. Maybe something that is sometimes ignored by those afraid to have there secrure world challenged, but not some mystery only a few are now discovering .

As far as I can see this forum has lots of video posting going on. That's one of the best ways to show your point of view. And once again I am not saying that's the only way. Also my first clip was not posted my me. But as people where asking questions and talking - I then posted the rest. I am happy not to post them on this forum if that's what people want. I just thought it was good for people to see other views of wing chun and also wing chun that is being used my fighters.

I never made any comments that pressure testing was new or a mystery. The point is maybe some don't do it or do it very well.

The pointless idea on comments we directed to people who don't train in this way. If you don't spar with good fighters or different styles then its hard to listen to views on sparring and fighting from these guys. Thats all.

[JPinAZ]

As far as I can see this forum has lots of video posting going on. That's one of the best ways to show your point of view. And once again I am not saying that's the only way. Also my first clip was not posted my me. But as people where asking questions and talking - I then posted the rest. I am happy not to post them on this forum if that's what people want. I just thought it was good for people to see other views of wing chun and also wing chun that is being used my fighters.

I never made any comments that pressure testing was new or a mystery. The point is maybe some don't do it or do it very well.

The pointless idea on comments we directed to people who don't train in this way. If you don't spar with good fighters or different styles then its hard to listen to views on sparring and fighting from these guys. Thats all.

Hey, I think it's cool you are willing to post them up and share what you're doing - even if I don't agree with everything you do
And I also agree, clips are a great way to show one's POV, 'specially when the written word can only do go so far without a visible example. I was just commenting that I didn't think it had to be required to have your own to be able to comment on them. At least we understand each other now.
IMO, the best way to have these types of discussions is in-person since you can also feel the energy involved. But since we're on a forum and everyone lives all over the world, we gotta make do wtih what we got.

The pressure testing/mystery comment wasn't really toward you, just commenting on another line of discussion the thread was going on.

[Alan Orr]

Hey, I think it's cool you are willing to post them up and share what you're doing - even if I don't agree with everything you do
And I also agree, clips are a great way to show one's POV, 'specially when the written word can only do go so far without a visible example. I was just commenting that I didn't think it had to be required to have your own to be able to comment on them. At least we understand each other now.
IMO, the best way to have these types of discussions is in-person since you can also feel the energy involved. But since we're on a forum and everyone lives all over the world, we gotta make do wtih what we got.

The pressure testing/mystery comment wasn't really toward you, just commenting on another line of discussion the thread was going on.

That's all cool. I agree. I think the forum can be of use when it's about people sharing and talking. Not agreeing on stuff is totally cool with me. That's kind of the point in some way - to see other stuff and understand what they do even if its not what you would do. Some people are a bit to worried by stuff they can't understand or ideas that are different to their own. These guys are a pain as they stop the whole thread to debate their own insecure views. That's the part of the forum that bores the hell out of me. Having to answer the same questions on every thread. I am sure others are tried of that as well. Anyway thank You. Its nice to not 100% agree and not be personal about it... like adults!