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Thread: Sensing the meridians - share experiences

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    My take on it is that if the meridians are something you can sense, then they represent, by definition, a phenomenological approach to describing the body rather than a scientific one. That doesn't make them wrong. They describe the body as experienced by us. That can make them good for practising as they are.

    Those same sensations can be the object of more finely-grained physiological descriptions, but such scientific results might not help us practise. For instance meditating on Guan Yin's name might have a beneficial effect on our nervous system. Suppose someone describes that effect in terms of measurable effects in the brain. Should you then tell the meditator to replace the thought of Guan Yin with a bunch of data?

    Or we can see colors. If you say that's not color, that's "just" wavelengths of light interacting with a sense organ and a brain and point to all the data, then sure. I agree. But that doesn't change the fact that what we see are colors.
    Well said. I agree.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    As far as you know!

    That presumes time is not a function of mind. But it is, which means 13 gazillion years and one second are relative to the mind perceiving it and are essentially equal.

    On the other hand, that makes humans less than dust mites, doesn't it?

    It is all a matter of perspective.
    Actually it sounds like the opposite, that you just made humans even bigger by making the whole universe anthropocentric with fundamental features such as time being dependent on the human mind. You, sir, are *voice goes very shrill* an anti-Copernican!

    What I really think is going on here is that you are describing a phenomenological approach to life, the universe and everything. That's fine. Just as the boys at bullshido are cool with hurting people, I'm cool with phenomenological approaches to life.

    Just don't mix it up with science. Science and religion often coexist in the same person. But good fences make good neighbors.

  3. #18
    I am researching the Bonghan channel stuff. Here's the story:

    In the 60's a North Korean scientist found and mapped microscopic fibers running along the meridians with nodules at the accupoints. The fibers were translucent and 1/5 the width of a hair and often amoung fascia or lymph so almost impossible to see without correct stain.

    Stuff that small was observable thousands of years ago as there are hundreds of lenses found that were used for magnification also the chinese devised other methods such as water magnifiers.

    The Bonghan ducts follow the meridians and the spread into a network around organs and mesh with the fascia.

    Inside the ducts is acidic fluid and "ADULT STEM CELLS"

    Ha haaa yes its a distribution system for stem cells.

    The channels conduct light, heat and are electromagnetically sensitive also.

    So the meridians or nadis now are proven anatomically although the research is ongoing at present.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gareththomasnz View Post
    I am researching the Bonghan channel stuff. Here's the story:

    In the 60's a North Korean scientist found and mapped microscopic fibers running along the meridians with nodules at the accupoints. The fibers were translucent and 1/5 the width of a hair and often amoung fascia or lymph so almost impossible to see without correct stain.

    Stuff that small was observable thousands of years ago as there are hundreds of lenses found that were used for magnification also the chinese devised other methods such as water magnifiers.

    The Bonghan ducts follow the meridians and the spread into a network around organs and mesh with the fascia.

    Inside the ducts is acidic fluid and "ADULT STEM CELLS"

    Ha haaa yes its a distribution system for stem cells.

    The channels conduct light, heat and are electromagnetically sensitive also.

    So the meridians or nadis now are proven anatomically although the research is ongoing at present.
    I request a link to this research. Or at least the doctor's name so I can check through my academic channels on this.
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  5. #20
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    http://www.tcmstudent.com/bonghan05.pdf

    Apparently this is a thing?

  6. #21
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    It looks legit. Haven't seen anything discounting the research, and it's supported by Wiley-Liss, which is an academic publisher.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  7. #22
    Bonghan theory


    The Bonghan(BH) system was proposed as an anatomical circulatory organ containing the anatomical structure of the acupuncture meridian system, i.e., anatomical structure of the meridian was found to be a part of a larger organ.
    The Bonghan system is consisted of several subsystems; superficial BH system in the skin, intravascular BH system inside large blood and lymphatic vessels, organ-surface BH system on the surfaces of various internal organs and neuro BH system associated with the nervous system.
    History

    The National Acupunture Meridians Research Institue, led by Bong Han Kim, discovered the "Substance of Kyungrak" which constitues the material foundation of the "Kyungrak theory" in the course of clarifying, on the basis of modern science, this theory which is of great importance in the classics fo Eastern medicine. The report on this discovery was published on August 18, 1961. After making futher research, it was established on November 30, 1963, that the Kyungrak system consists of Bonghan ducts and Bonghan corpuscles and that Bonghan liquor containing a rich amount of deoxyribonucleic acid(DNA) circulates this system. Later the National Acupunture Meridians Research Institue revealed the distribution of the Kyungrak system in the shole body and has since striven to bring to light its essential, biological significance.
    On April 15, Bong Han Kim made a report on the results of the reseach at the Kyungrak Society of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. According to the report, Kim Bong Han made a thorough observation of the Kyungrak system, regarding it as a system of the circulation of Bonghan liquor. He made particluar efforts to dig donw the systematic structure of the Kyungrak system, the system of the circulation of the Bonghan liquor with a rich content of DNA which had hitherto been known to be existing only in the cell nucleus

    Since 2002, Bonghan theory has been studied intenstively by the Biomedical Physics Laboratory in Seoul National University. The first finding was intravascular Bonghan duct in large blood vessels and lymphatic vessels of rabbits, rat, and mice.
    Bonghan Ducts and Corpuscles
    The component parts of Bonghan system are Bonghan ducts and Bonghan corpuscles. The Bonghan corpuscles and ducts can be classified into several categories, the common structure of which being as follows:

    1. The Bonghan duct is a bundle of very fine Bonghan ductules with a diameter of 5 - 15;um. The wall of the Bonghan ductile is composed of endothelial cells as in the case of the blood and lymphatic vessels. But the endothelial cells of the Bonghan ductule are very characteristic. The endothelial cell nucleus is of rod shape and abundant in chromatin and the electronic density is so high that its inner composition is hardly discernible in electron micrographs. The boundary of cytoplasm is not clear and only rod-shape nuclei arranged in and orderly manner on the wall of the Bonghan ductule can be seen. The wall of the Bonghan ductule is very thin; about 0.1 - 0.2 um in electron microscopic observation. Besides, the Bonghan ductule has outer membrane, which is composed of argyrophile fiber and outer membrane cells. The outer membrane cell takes a form similar to smooth muscle and it is presumably the contractile element of the Bonghan ductule. Several ductules are bound by a surrounding membrane.

    2. The Bonghan corpuscles are, without exception, linked with Bonghan ducts. The Bonghan corpuscles are formed through the enlargement, ramification and anastomosis of Bonghan ductules. The stroma covering the corpuscles is reticular tissue. This tissue is connected with the outer membrane of the Bonghan ductules and the surrounding membrane of the Bonghan ducts. The Bonghan duct contains basophilic granules, basophilic structures, nucleus-like structures and specific cells. They are related with the reproduction of formed elements

    Intravascular Bonghan System

    It is a system of Bonghan ducts and corpuscles distributed inside the blood and lymphatic vessels. Inter-linked Bonghan corpuscles and ducts are systematically distributed in all the arteries, veins, lymphatic vessels and in the heart. The inner Bonghan ducts lie freely in the flow of blood and they are ramified together with blood vessels. The Bonghan ducts inside the lymphatic vessel are visible from outside. The structure of the inner bonghan corpuscle with a diameter of 0.1~0.2mm is similar to a small hematopoietic organ.
    As in ithe organs producing erythrocyte, leucocyte and lymphocyte, serials of their young cells are found in the net eyes of the reticular structure. The hematopoietic of the inner Bonghan corpuscles has been confirmed through various experiments. But their function is not confined to this. Groups of parenchyma cells of the organ and various other cells, basophilic substance and nucleus-like cells are found in these corpuscles.

    Organ Surface Bonghan System

    The Bonghan ducts and corpuscles are distributed in a reticular form on the surface of the internal organs. The structure of this Bonghan duct is the same as the intravascular Bonghan ducts and it is linked with the intravascular Bonghan system through the wall of the blood vessel.

    see also

    http://primosystem.wikispaces.com/

    There is plenty of biophysics research on this now. I am thinking this is a way for the body to very specifically target tissues with stem cells. Stem cells in the blood are transported willy nilly.

    Also as the fibre network is EMF sensitive this may be the natural control mechanism for determining where the stem cells are deposited. Based upon light, and bio electromagnetic tissue polarities etc. We know that pressure etc also affects the meridians and thanks to Bonghan theory we now know exactly what the Qi in the meridians is.

    http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=H...onghan&f=false

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/...=981555&page=1
    Last edited by gareththomasnz; 02-28-2012 at 08:12 PM.

  8. #23
    We know that pressure etc also affects the meridians and thanks to Bonghan theory we now know exactly what the Qi in the meridians is.
    I think it's better to say we are now closer to know how qi affects the body rather than what qi is. The Qi discussed in the classics has a much bigger meaning and applications than what these findings are about, therefore we should be more careful about limiting the definition based on limited findings.

  9. #24
    That is certainly true but I expect that in the next 5-10 years modern science will have exhausted the mysteries and be discovering new knowledge in this field.

  10. #25
    I agree, however I guess it would be more in the category of discovering new particles.

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