Finnally a good bagua fighting video

[taai gihk yahn]

Some think he has been resurrected as the Kung Fu God, myself included.

it wouldn't be the first time he pretended not to be himself...

[wenshu]

I think it's because he became a broken record with how "everybody in tcma is cr@p, nobody can fight, you're all wasting your time."

Personally I got a bit peeved when I posted videos of a couple mma fighters talking about their shaolin training experience, how it affected them as people and as fighters; to which Ray kept repeating that since some wiki site listed what they do as kickboxing/muay thai that none of their other training "counts".

I don't mind the guy personally. I think he brings a unique view to various discussions. I just wish he wasn't so closed-minded against kung fu. Yes, he got burned. Yes, he's seen some cr@ppy schools - we all have. But that doesn't mean that everybody is clueless on how to use the stuff or that the stuff is fake.

Heck, our own lkfmdc has an entire blog devoted to "this is what I learned, this is what I still use, this is how I updated the training, and these are the champions that have come out of my gym."
Of course lkfmdc "doesn't count", because he has a muay thai program now. Forget the fact that sanda events are hard to come by, muay thai events are 10 times more common, and his fighters needed to learn how to succeed in the thai ruleset & scoring system. None of it "counts" because of the name of the class & because his fighters aren't fighting out of deep horse stances.

Not only that, but there are other fighters on the board who've related their own, personal experiences. Again, none of it "counts" because they weren't fighting bareknuckle, with deep, rooted, training stances, and slashing people up with tiger claws like Ray expected.

The same argument over and over, thread after thread, every single post just became tiresome.
His kung fu fantasies were shattered. Okay. Get over it. Either reapply what's there, to make it functional, and make it your own; or walk away and do something else.
Most of us here just don't feel like hearing a broken record repeating "what you're doing is useless" ad nauseum.

This sums it up perfectly.

I for one actually agree in principle with a lot of what he says. However, it's painfully obvious he is not interested in any sort of constructive discussion and just wants to act out some deep seated resentments. He clearly has a major grudge against anything Chinese and refuses to even acknowledge any evidence presented to him to refute his one note criticisms. He is obviously obsessed with kung foobar or he wouldn't keep coming back to repeat the same shit over and over again.

Someone burnt him real bad. This is like a group therapy session where Ray keeps acting out a cry for help and everybody has to tell him they're perception of how his behavior reflects his personal animosities.

And really that's ok. If that is his contribution than so be it. Just be aware that if you put yourself up on a pedestal people are going to call you on it. So don't get all butt hurt when really all you wanted was the attention in the first place.

I don't even think he should have been banned, especially after he was initially granted a reprieve. On the other hand calling out other members in open thread titles shows a definite lack of decorum. Just send a PM.

He was already plenty obnoxious before he started using an alt and referring to himself in the third person so really banning him just made it worse. Everybody piling on him really only reinforces his feeling of being a pariah. Maybe if everybody started kissing his ass and playing into his delusions of grandeur he would stop trying to publicly ameliorate his personal demons and see a therapist/binge drink like normal people.

[Kung Fu God]

put up or shut up

i takes a big man to put downs someones hard work and accomplishments with a few words on the internet

Either reapply what's there, to make it functional, and make it your own; or walk away and do something else.
Most of us here just don't feel like hearing a broken record repeating "what you're doing is useless" ad nauseum.

I for one actually agree in principle with a lot of what he says. However, it's painfully obvious he is not interested in any sort of constructive discussion and just wants to act out some deep seated resentments. He clearly has a major grudge against anything Chinese and refuses to even acknowledge any evidence presented to him to refute his one note criticisms. .

To continu to do the same things the same way and expect different results......?

The criticism is that video does not show "GOOD" Ba Gua fighting.

Ray Pina's critisicm was that their is no video of Good Kung Fu in relation to Good other styles.... Best Kung Fu vs Best Boxing. Best Kung Fu vs. Best Judo. Best Kung Fu vs Best MMA.

Instead of considering the argument, looking at ourselves as a community of devoted martial artists and the capabilities we produce in our students, he was banned.

[Kung Fu God]

What's with all the hating of Ray Pina? I go away for a while and this place seems more like a schoolyard than the um... schoolyard it used to look like.

Ray clearly has found his way and is stepping up for it. Good for him!

Ray Pina got banned? really?

wow

While websites and magazines have a right to control their content, that right does not cancel out individual right. There is certainly a case for discrimination and cyber bullying.

[hskwarrior]

To continu to do the same things the same way and expect different results......?

The criticism is that video does not show "GOOD" Ba Gua fighting.

Ray Pina's critisicm was that their is no video of Good Kung Fu in relation to Good other styles.... Best Kung Fu vs Best Boxing. Best Kung Fu vs. Best Judo. Best Kung Fu vs Best MMA.

Instead of considering the argument, looking at ourselves as a community of devoted martial artists and the capabilities we produce in our students, he was banned.

everyone see's through your fake persona and knows who you are. but you're a nut talking about yourself in the third person. LOL

[Pork Chop]

Ray Pina's critisicm was that their is no video of Good Kung Fu in relation to Good other styles.... Best Kung Fu vs Best Boxing. Best Kung Fu vs. Best Judo. Best Kung Fu vs Best MMA.

Instead of considering the argument, looking at ourselves as a community of devoted martial artists and the capabilities we produce in our students, he was banned.

That is not it at all.
Like a child covering his ears to anything he didn't want to hear, Ray denied any and all empirical evidence contrary to his claims & accusations.
His nonsensical ranting caused the forum to lose established members like lkfmdc.
He proved himself closed-minded, not open to respectful discussion, and that's why he was banned.
Granted, I'm not sure I agree with the banning, but when you refuse to accept any body else's input or opinions, then what is the point of discussion?
There are plenty of people retooling their stuff and moving to be more active in sporting venues as a means to stress test their skills; look at Masterkiller, among others.
Many people realize the need for change from old ways of thinking and are working hard to incorporate it.
They don't appreciate being told that their hard work "doesn't count."

[YouKnowWho]

Real Bagua does not leave you constantly vulnerable like this.

The Bagua "circle walking" training is for health and self-cultivation. It's not for combat.

Trying to use "self-cultivation" training in "combat" is as bad as trying to use "combat training" for "health".

A simple example is that "speed" is not that important in "health" and "self-cultivation". But it's extream important in "combat". For those who enjoy their training in slow speed, they may find a big surprise in combat.

[Kung Fu God]

That is not it at all.
Like a child covering his ears to anything he didn't want to hear, Ray denied any and all empirical evidence contrary to his claims & accusations.
His nonsensical ranting caused the forum to lose established members like lkfmdc.
He proved himself closed-minded, not open to respectful discussion, and that's why he was banned.

I have to say, I agree with his general statements.....that doesn't make me close minded. Do you feel you presented ample evidence showing that Kung Fu is consistently producing fighters capable of competing in non-TCMA specific events such as boxing, professional kick boxing and MMA? Is there a recognized name in Kung Fu competing in the UFC? Has Kung Fu produced a champion in Pride, UFC, King of Cage? Has Kung Fu wrestling won prominently in Abu Dhabi?

I just don't think we have produced that level of talent yet. Maybe that hasn't been our focus. But we won't get there by turning a blind eye. How do we get our best fighters from standing out in San Da to at least toeing the line in main stream events? Not by doing the same thing we've done in the 80s, 90s.

This featured Ba Gua player is not the answer. Does he have Ba Gua skill.... some. Did he gain good position a number of times.... yes! That's very good. SHows skill and understanding. Could he gain such a position on a college level grappler? Remains to be seen.

[Kung Fu God]

The Bagua "circle walking" training is for health and self-cultivation. It's not for combat.

Trying to use "self-cultivation" training in "combat" is as bad as trying to use "combat training" for "health".
.

I would also say its trains connectivity and fluidity. As well as drive in kicking.... it also serves as a kind of structure maintaining shadowboxing.

[David Jamieson]

Ray was banned for being an agitating ass hole with no purpose except to troll people.

I was the one who had him banned.

And I'll do it again to anyone who follows suit.

hope that is LOUD and CLEAR to you.

[hskwarrior]

And I'll do it again to anyone who follows suit.

hope that is LOUD and CLEAR to you.

KUNG FU GOD (WANNABE) is none other than RAY PINA. He just can't NOT sound like himself. is he really that lame thinking no one can tell they are one and the same?

[Kung Fu God]

\ He clearly has a major grudge against anything Chinese .

This about someone who spent over 10 years training Kung Fu in NYC Chinatown with Chinese Americans? About someone who visits China every year? Someone who participated in this Kung Fu forum until being banned for trying to light a fire under our a$$es?


Oh, but we don't need to hear it.

No?

[David Jamieson]

If found to be true, he's out.
A bad attitude is like a flat tire, you are not going to get far with it.

[hskwarrior]

If found to be true, he's out.
A bad attitude is like a flat tire, you are not going to get far with it.

just read through his posts. he can't change the hater that dwells within.

This about someone who spent over 10 years training Kung Fu in NYC Chinatown with Chinese Americans? About someone who visits China every year? Someone who participated in this Kung Fu forum until being banned for trying to light a fire under our a$$es?

There are better ways to light a fire under the as$es of some. Your approach is completely destructive to whatever kung fu is left in this world. You have shamed all of your kung fu elders with your hatred.

[Kung Fu God]

Ray was banned for being an agitating ass hole with no purpose except to troll people.

I was the one who had him banned.

And I'll do it again to anyone who follows suit.

hope that is LOUD and CLEAR to you.

I'll save you the trouble.....


it is me you kook!

I just wanted to see if there was a legit reason for me being banned. I'm glad you came out with it.

I posted here to provide some honest, unbiased feedback.... as a fighter! I've been accused of setting people up for sparring and then thrashing them. When the video shows the same people coming back to fight more than once. Or stepping up to fight after I just beat someone. After seeing the intensity. I showed footage of me fighting when I only trained Kung Fu. Pure TCMA. Didn't win fights, but definitely showed moments of technique. Not to mention I'm still fighting. And winning.

fata$$ warrior. Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6sL...5&feature=plcp
At 3:22..... that's how you control both hands before hitting. Notice. Total control= other goes down when hit.

And this video is now almost 10 years old. Now there is years of competing MMA experience behind it.

Here is one of the 4 students I've had in my life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S80wD...7&feature=plcp

Again, almost 10 years ago.

Perfect? Far from it! Room for improvement? Tons. That's what the past 10 years were far. And the next 10 years as well.

Shame on all of you for allowing someone to be banned for disagreeing. For repeatedly defending their position. It isn't going to change because you don't have the courage to change the way you change and relate to the martial community as a whole.

Good luck. You're all going to need it.