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"Don't use muscle" was one of those mantras at the first WC school I studied in. It was always a bit puzzling to me because without muscle, we couldn't even hold our heads up let alone do kung fu. I came to understand that it means "use structure to generate power".
Is "don't use muscle" something that's been highly emphasized for others as well?
GM of Hadaka Korosu
It is impossible NOT to use muscle.Originally Posted by WingChunABQ
What those things mean is to NOT OVERLY rely on brute strength.
Correct MA technique is when you apply strength at the right time of application of technique.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Going to disagree a small bit sanjuro.
2 ways to do things: Internal, which has the prime focus of power generation from the skeleton and tendons. External prime focus of power generation from muscles like triceps etc.
Muscle is always involved however what is meant is not to focus on using muscle or strength but rather focus on using your skeleton and tendons.
For example in tennis the goal is to use your body, turning and twisting of your hips and waist to hit the ball. Your arm should be like a whip. It transmits the power generated by the body it does not generate the power itself.
Wing chun is the same. arm is the whip power comes from proper use of the body.
Most untrained people however generate power from contraction, tension of their muscles first.
Hence awlays being told to relax etc. tension in muscles actually holds power back. So the saying don't use muscle is a crude inaccurate way to try to convey the idea of let power generate and flow from the body and allow the arms to be amore whip like when striking.
Last edited by hunt1; 03-01-2012 at 09:19 AM.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
It is impossible to move without muscular effort.
The human body does NOT work that way.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Read what i wrote not what you think I wrote, Clearly said muscle is always involved!
Any activity that involves striking or just pure power generation the proper mechanics are the same and are in essence taught the same by qualified teachers. Tennis,Baseball,Golf', Olympic lifting or wing chun all the same
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Yeah I read and this here is one HUGE misconception:
You can't move, much less generate power from your skeleton and tendons without using muscular force.2 ways to do things: Internal, which has the prime focus of power generation from the skeleton and tendons. External prime focus of power generation from muscles like triceps etc
Every athlete that needs to be quicker or more explosive works on building stronger muscles.
You said:
Thing is that you CAN'T use your skeletal structure without exerting muscular effort for focusing on using your skeleton and tendons means nothing really.Muscle is always involved however what is meant is not to focus on using muscle or strength but rather focus on using your skeleton and tendons.
Have you seen the dominant arm of a tennis player?For example in tennis the goal is to use your body, turning and twisting of your hips and waist to hit the ball. Your arm should be like a whip. it transmits the power generated by the body it does not generate the power itself.
A tennis stroke is a whole body action, including the arm, it is NOT simply a transmitter.
Notice the bodies of tennis players now?
Notice that are hitting faster, harder and playing more powerful?
And what do coaches in Tennis, baseball, OL et all advocate to make their athlete faster, more explosive?Any activity that involves striking or just pure power generation the proper mechanics are the same and are in essence taught the same by qualified teachers. Tennis,Baseball,Golf', Olympic lifting or wing chun all the same
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
oh oh (puts hand up) can i answer please!!!!!!!!
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Every style that voices the whole "don't use muscle" thing is simply trying to instill that fact that brute strength can only take you so far, but every MA system advocates USING strength at the right time.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
If you say OL I will smack you !
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Was going to say strength training that works both the CNS system and the bodies’ ability to contract its muscles quickly….OL lifts are just implied by the statement, as are squats, plyros and deads
Registered User
Of course. But the idea is to develop and employ structures (that could be seen as the skeletal and tendon aspect) and kinetic linkages that allow you to relax unnecessary muscle groups and maximise your efficiency. Less gas, more mileage.
Another thing is learning to borrow your opponent's force. Relax and use his power to augment yours.
On the other hand if you are huge and awesomely powerful, why bother? Unfortunately, I'm smallish and old. Gotta go with the 'chun.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Of course, but all thatrequires the use of muscles and the stronger they are the less effort you will have to use.employ structures (that could be seen as the skeletal and tendon aspect) and kinetic linkages that allow you to relax unnecessary muscle groups and maximise your efficiency. Less gas, more mileage.
Luckily strength is one of the last things we lose as we get older and one of the things that we can hold on to the longest.
Its about the economic use of strength and, as with all things, the most strength you have to use economically, the better.
This of course goes beyond MA since the vast majority of us will need strength in our everyday lives for more than we will need MA.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Ah, I see now your just obtuse.
Proper technique is the proper use of the skeleton and joints to accomplish the task.
Using dead lift as an example. Most untrained people simply bend over and try to lift with their arms and upper back. This would be a version of external muscle first usage.
Proper lift is based on technique which is based on the use of knees, hips spine position. The arms are not the primary lifters arms insure the grip and prime goal is to maintain connection to the rest of the body through the shoulder joints. The power for the lift comes from engagement of the lower body muscles . This engagement is accomplished via the hips, knees and spine. this is internal usage. The use and alignment of the skeleton provides the platform over which the larger muscles are then engaged.
The lift is accomplished via use of the skeleton. If the skeleton is not used properly the lifter will not achieve maximum results and injury will eventually occur.
Sure tennis and all other athletics ruse weight bearing exercises in some form. However the technique used is based on the use of the ankles hip knee shoulder joints etc. Don't see any tennis players with 21 inch guns Focus is overall body not individual muscle development.
Last edited by hunt1; 03-01-2012 at 11:14 AM.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
and you CAN'T use your skeleton WITHOUT your muscles.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Don't confuse strength with hypertrohy.Sure tennis and all other athletics ruse weight bearing exercises in some form. However the technique used is based on the use of the ankles hip knee shoulder joints etc. Don't see any tennis players with 21 inch guns Focus is overall body not individual muscle development.
Muscle mass is an indication of muscle size, not strength.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
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