Teaching in a Park

[MasterKiller]

Plus, my students are very good about observing traditional etiquette and frequently bring me food, gifts, etc. to show their appreciation and respect. ....However, they need to prove their commitment and are only given what they are willing to put in. Likewise, senior students are responsible for nearly all of a newer student's initial instruction. I'm usually there, in and out, but I am far more hands on with my senior students who have put in the time and effort to earn their training. .

This is ridiculous. If they pay you, you teach them. If they wanted to learn from your sh1tty senior students, they would pay them instead.

All the other bullsh1t with bringing you food and you refusing to teach new people, etc... is just preposterous.

If you open a public school, even if it's in your garage, you should act like a professional teacher and not some movie caricature of what you think a Sifu is supposed to be like.

[crazyfistmonk]

MK...
As hard as it may be for you to believe, I don't consider your opinion before I do things, especially when it comes to training and teaching. That's the problem...far too much catering to students' whims because they're paying the bills.
Good luck with your own training and teaching methods. Our dialogue here is finished.

[hskwarrior]

MK,

CFM does it the old school way. I know exactly of what he's talking about because the same thing happened at my teachers school. students bought things for sifu, dropped off some food for the family and so on. I would even drop by my sigungs place before he passed to bring him a chicken.

When i was at my sifu's school I often trained the new students too. Sifu would come around and check what they learned after.

Don't come down on homeboy too hard....i lived what he mentioned. its just the old school way.

[xinyidizi]

I don't know anything about how the things are in western countries and how western people think about Chinese traditions but crazyfistmonk's way is the method most of the high level teachers in China use in their classes. In our class senior students who have been training for 10~20 years train the beginners but the shifu also spends some time training us at the beginning and the end of each class. Altogether I think that it's a very efficient method as sometimes the senior students can fill in the huge gap between beginners and a shifu who has trained for 50 plus years.

[YouKnowWho]

This is ridiculous. If they pay you, you teach them. If they wanted to learn from your sh1tty senior students, they would pay them instead.

I had watched many TCMA teachers taught their class in the park. Their senior students did the teaching and correction for the 1 hour and 1/2. For the last 1/2 hour, the teacher stood up and checked and corrected each students. One advantage for this approach is the teacher will teach his senior students "how to teach" which is a good thing for the future generation.

I don't know anything about how the things are in western countries.

In Kempo Karate schools, the beginnerd even have to sign on their contracts that they will need to teach other beginners so many hours in order for them to be promoted to the next color belt.

[MasterKiller]

MK,

CFM does it the old school way. I know exactly of what he's talking about because the same thing happened at my teachers school. students bought things for sifu, dropped off some food for the family and so on. I would even drop by my sigungs place before he passed to bring him a chicken.

When i was at my sifu's school I often trained the new students too. Sifu would come around and check what they learned after.

Don't come down on homeboy too hard....i lived what he mentioned. its just the old school way.

Who cares? In this day and age, and especially when you ARE NOT IN CHINA, its 'sifus' like this that keep people really interested in fighting away. You basically cater to LARPers and fringe sociopaths who feel the need as adults to have another adult rule over them from a high teaching pedestal. Adults bring you food because you yell at them while they stand in horse stance? Get over yourself, bro!

My disgust for instructors like this is why my students call me 'coach.'

If you see the Buddha in the road, kill that bast@rd.

[Syn7]

I charge $50/month for three 2-hr classes a week. That's $2.08/hour for my time, and I have a gym full of proper equipment.

So do you only work 6 hours a week as an MA instructor and have another job? or do you have so many students that you have to run simultaneous curriculum and are busy all week?

I was under the impression you were full time instructor.

[hskwarrior]

Adults bring you food because you yell at them while they stand in horse stance? Get over yourself, bro!

get over myself? for real? its like that?

[MasterKiller]

So do you only work 6 hours a week as an MA instructor and have another job? or do you have so many students that you have to run simultaneous curriculum and are busy all week?

I was under the impression you were full time instructor.

I run 3 structured classes/week. The other nights are 'open mat' where people come and go as they please. I also have a day job, so money is never a motivating factor in how I teach.

[Pork Chop]

get over myself? for real? its like that?

I don't think it was you specifically. I think he meant any teacher that demands that sort of treatment.

The last time I trained in an actual kwoon, I think my sifu showed me maybe 1 or 2 things himself in the 2+ years I was there. Everything else was taught by 1 of 3 or 4 seniors (maybe more). Thing is, my senior classmates were really good and established in their own rights, with their own reputations - so I was happy to learn from them. Usually conflicts were no big deal, you just did it the way the particular senior who you were talking to wanted it. The only time I had any trouble was on one occasion when 2 of the seniors had a conflicting viewpoint, I had sided with one of the seniors, and later sifu sided with the other.

We did the traditional etiquette with food and tea in the restaurant as well. Unfortunately for me, I was pretty much the lowest ranking student the entire 2+ years I was there. LOL

[MasterKiller]

get over myself? for real? its like that?

Well, not you in particular, but if you are one of these guys who feels students should be so grateful to you for allowing them to PAY for lessons that you expect them to bring you free chicken sandwiches, then it is what it is.

The difference is, I'm grateful people come to me to teach them...

[hskwarrior]

Well, not you in particular, but if you are one of these guys who feels students should be so grateful to you for allowing them to PAY for lessons that you expect them to bring you free chicken sandwiches, then it is what it is.

Since you don't really know how i feel about it, YOU should get over yourself, BRO. LOL just sayin

if you would have asked how i feel about it, you would have discovered we share the same thoughts on certain things. but personally, i don't see a problem with the way i was taught, trained or how my sifu ran his school. I've witnessed many many people feeding my sifu, doing errands for him, and so on. Although i don't ask this of my students i WILL ask my senior students to teach the newer ones. WHY? to give them teaching experience. to make sure they are able to effectively relate the correct things.

It is what it is.

[omarthefish]

Who cares? In this day and age, and especially when you ARE NOT IN CHINA, its 'sifus' like this that keep people really interested in fighting away. You basically cater to LARPers and fringe sociopaths who feel the need as adults to have another adult rule over them from a high teaching pedestal. Adults bring you food because you yell at them while they stand in horse stance? Get over yourself, bro!

My disgust for instructors like this is why my students call me 'coach.'

If you see the Buddha in the road, kill that bast@rd.

OTOH, it's not really possible for someone to make a living as a full time martial arts instructor without delegating most of the teaching out to assistant instructors. Since, as you just posted, you have a day job and this teaching thing is just something you do on the side, it's not such an issue.

Honestly, how much one on one time does anyone have with any of the big name instuctors out there that are running large schools? Just do the math. If you have 50+ students in your school at any given time, trying to take full responsibility for all the teaching 1 to 1 is a fools errand.

There's no need to interpret it as some sort of neo-confucian kiss arse nonsense. As to bringing the occasional gift of food or whatever...heaven forbid you should create a sense of family and community on your school!

[Pork Chop]

There's no need to interpret it as some sort of neo-confucian kiss arse nonsense. As to bringing the occasional gift of food or whatever...heaven forbid you should create a sense of family and community on your school!

Isn't that also kind of a buddhist thing? Monks live off of the donations of others; the begging showing the removal of ego in acceptance, the giving a sign of compassion. In exchange, the monks offer teachings & prayers to the lay people.

With a kung fu sifu, I would imagine this would be symbolic of a similar student-teacher relationship.

East-Asian culture in general has different etiquette regarding gifts than the States.
There are certain social obligations that are different than what is standard in in American culture, but not entirely absent: gifts for birthdays, Christmas, Valentine's day, Halloween, and Easter.

On the other hand, back to the topic of being taught by an instructor vs his students; I've always been of the mind that having a good gym/kwoon/camp is more important than the head instructor/sifu/coach. Iron sharpens iron. I'd rather be working with a team of "assistants," each giving one-on-one time, than a single head instructor who has to divide his attention 20 ways.

[MasterKiller]

There's no need to interpret it as some sort of neo-confucian kiss arse nonsense. As to bringing the occasional gift of food or whatever...heaven forbid you should create a sense of family and community on your school!

That's exactly what CMF described. It's not people helping out and bringing a pie once in a while; he EXPECTS others to do all the work an cotow for the knowledge he probably earned himself in a Colorado strip mall.

I buy the food for our cookouts. I give my students free tshirts, wristbands, etc...whenever I can. Because the Students, not the Teacher, are the lifeblood of the school. Once in a while someone bakes me something for a holiday, etc.... But I sure as hell would never expect adults who pay for my lessons to feed me on a regular basis.

You want to talk about Family? That's how a family works. The head of the household provides. You don't send your 12 y/o out to mow lawns to earn money for your dinner because you yourself are too arrogant to work.