Buk Sing and Lee Koon Hung

[hskwarrior]

But it is a hallmark of BSCLF from my understanding.

yeah back in the 90's that used to come up, "why is buk sing so stretched out...not only hands but their horses too?""

People who were his kung fu brothers at the futsan hung sing school all did things different. This happens in every school

The only difference in this case is people chose to name it a different lineage

This is true. its all personal flavor and how it works for you. i used to imitate how my sifu moved but later found my own movement.

[CLFNole]

Again, I think this goes back to the individual. I have a disk of a buk sing memorial banquet from Hong Kong and I remember watching it and noticing the difference from person to person/school to school. Yes it was all buk sing but some played their arm's longer and other stances wider.

I think everyone has their own preference and nothing is set in stone for anything.

[hskwarrior]

I think like anything everyone has their own preference and nothing is set in stone for anything.

Thats the GOOD thing about CLF.....its all interchangeable.

[CLFNole]

Thats the GOOD thing about CLF.....its all interchangeable.

I agree 100%.

[TenTigers]

boy..you guys are being way to agreeable for this forum.

You need to start hanging out with the WC guys more...

[crazyfistmonk]

Thanks for all of the input on this thread. Good discussion without deterioration into squabbling, bickering, and the like. Appreciated.
The two main things I noticed between Buk Sing and the Lee Koon Hung line forms that prompted my research was the extensive emphasis on the use of the Charp Choy and the extended reach, waist twisting, and "Northern" flavor of the forms themselves. I think the extensive use of the Charp Choy as compared with other branches really got me to thinking about the possible cross-pollination that is likely to have occurred between the two lines.
I agree, everyone has their own flavor to playing the forms. This is as it should be. Stylistic differences are another matter altogether, however. The stylistic differences, to some degree, are what make Buk Sing, Buk Sing, Hung Sing, Hung Sing, and so-on. It's the individual interpretation within these stylistic differences that ultimately make my Choy Lay Fut, my Choy Lay Fut, and your Choy Lay Fut, your Choy Lay Fut. That's where the flavor comes into the mix.

Good discussion and lots of insight here.

[CLFNole]

Yep that is where I thought some influence it noticable through the chop choy.

We have a form called Fu Pow Kuen, that I always thought had a bit of a buk sing flavor to it but I don't think it is a buk sing set persay.

There is a Fu Pow connection from Jow Gar to Buk Sing through Kong On (Kong Hing's father) but I have seen some versions and it is much different from ours.

[crazyfistmonk]

It's been said that Lee Koon Hung's Sifu Poon Dik (I know, a point of contention for some) may have had some interaction with Tarm Sarm. I cannot comment on this, although I find the possibility interesting.
If this is true, it could account for some of the cross-pollination and apparent similarities between the two lines.

[CLFNole]

It is funny I once asked Poon Sing if we had some connection to buk sing and he was pretty adament about saying we didn't and mentioned our connection with Chan Koon Pak (my cantonese wasn't that good at the time).

It really much contention with who sifu's sifu was. Poon Dik was technically his ssifu but he passed away when sifu was quite young. Sifu then learned from of his sihings Leung Sai, Chow Bing and Poon Sing and then later in life he followed his Sisuk, So Kam Fook. He also interacted with another sisuk/sibaak, Leung Siu Keung, who was Leung Kwai's nephew.

Attn: Yao Sing...you need to clear some space in your PM box, I couldn't respond becuase it is full.

[crazyfistmonk]

CLFNole...That is interesting, for sure.
Personally (and again this is my personal opinion only) I think the bulk of the influence across lines came a little later with Lee Koon Hung and Tat Mau Wong and their association with Dave and Vince Lacey. There likewise could have been some exchange between Poon Sing and Kong Hing considering that they were close friends and associates. Not that I doubt that there was influence prior to that time, as I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Poon Dik/Tarm Sarm story is true (planting the proverbial seed of cross-pollination, if you will. Wow, I just read that...lol).
I'm almost convinced that Dave Lacey, for instance, learned the Iron Arrow from either Lee Koon Hung or Tat Mau Wong and modified it to suit his own personal taste and experience. Now, before I start upsetting people with that statement, let me clarify that this is my personal opinion only and I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone by making such a statement. I have nothing but the utmost respect for both Dave and Vince Lacey, as well as GM Lee Koon Hung and Tat Mau Wong.

CLFNole...I'm beginning to see that you're to Lee Koon Hung Choy Lay Fut what HSKWarrior is to Hung Sing! (I mean that in only the best possible way...lol.)

[CLFNole]

I know Sifu (LKH) and Sifu Dave Lacey interacted (I have some old pictures) and it was pretty common to exchange material. In my early training years I brought in a magazine with Sifu Lacey in it speaking about buk sing and Sifu mentioned he showed him Tuet Jin. I have seen a variety of clips of Sifu Lacey perform and a few times I saw part of the form mixed in with his other techniques so I figured that was the part he liked and incorporated into his style.

I don't think Tat Wong plays into it at all.

[crazyfistmonk]

Duly noted.
Thanks for all of the Lee Koon Hung line information, BTW.

[CLFNole]

No problem...by the way what is your buk sing lineage? If you don't mind me asking.

[crazyfistmonk]

Not at all
Mine comes from William Lee who was originally from Hong Kong. Honestly, lineage wasn't often discussed, so I'm not sure from whom he may have learned. His English was very poor and I didn't press the issue. What mattered to me was that he was far and above one of the fastest, strongest, and most powerful fighters I have ever met. He had the skill to back up his words and I wanted that skill. I didn't even know until I had been with him for awhile that what he taught was Choy Lay Fut. He claimed Buk Sing, always talking about Tarm Sarm's exploits; at least from the little that I was able to understand. He did mention Kong On and his son Kong Hing whom he referred to as "the fighting Kongs" but again, I honestly only ever understood a fraction of what he said to me. His point was often made by bruising my chest with Charp Choys, and I learned early on it was better not to ask a lot of unnecessary questions.
I studied with Lee Sifu for almost 3 years until he moved back to Hong Kong due to an issue with his work visa. He told me he was leaving, and the next week when I came into work, he was gone. He did leave me a set of butterfly knives and a heavily-worn wallbag which are now my prized possessions.
That about sums it up

[Shaolindynasty]

exchanges happen but every choy lay fut school does the chop choi with a panther fist. I don't think emphasis on the chop choi/panther fist means buk sing influence. we have a form called hon jerng lin wan kuen that is almot entirely different types of chop chois delivered continuously and have no buk sing influence. all choy lay fut schools have these techniques.