Nice drills from China

[Tainan Mantis]

I've always avoided double hand seals because you leave yourself open

Double seal is the basis of 'lulu.'

Leaving yourself open is enticing the opponent to strike you at the opening.

[mooyingmantis]

no, its different to gou lou cai........ in la feng shou, you hook and press both hands at the same time, more like a shuang feng.

taiji mantis doesnt have gou lou cai in the keywords, this drill trains zhan & nian - sticking and adhering as well as being a set up for other techniques. like i said, its more like sticky hands or push hands.

also, i think taiji mantis uses less trapping movements than ive seen from hk seven star clips online.

Oh ok, my mistake.

Can you share the Taiji Tanglangquan keywords with us?

Yeah, many HK 7* schools emphasize the trapping drills. I use them to get the beginning students used to having someone throwing strikes at them up close and personal. It develops their confidence and helps them to control the "flinch" response.

[iunojupiter]

Double seal is the basis of 'lulu.'

Leaving yourself open is enticing the opponent to strike you at the opening.

Yes, but both of your hands are occupied. It's the same with a double pick. It's great if you get the double pick (or the double seal), but if you don't get it, both your hands are occupied and one of theirs is not.
I'm satisfied with the speed of my hands, but I don't imagine they're quick enough to come back from a setback like that and defend effectively.
But that's me.

[xiao yao]

zhan 粘 stick
nian 粘 adhere
bang 帮 double handed press/push
tie 贴 lean (body to body contact)
lai 来 approaching
jiao 叫 provoking
shun 顺 moving along
song 送 moving against
ti 提 lift
na 拿 grab
feng 封 seal
bi 闭 close

[xiao yao]

its not really leaving you open as the opponents arm is pressed against the body, the power of the press should be enough to knock the opponent back, which is immediately followed up with an attack.

[Tainan Mantis]

I'm satisfied with the speed of my hands, but I don't imagine they're quick enough to come back from a setback like that and defend effectively.

Do you not train any of the following?
'go lou cai'
'cai san shou'
'shuang feng shou'
'tou zhan di lou'
'tiao bao chui'
'tiao bao cha chui'
'tiao bu chui'
'mo pan shou'
'tou zhan'
'deng pu'
'deng ta'

[Tainan Mantis]

its not really leaving you open as the opponents arm is pressed against the body, the power of the press should be enough to knock the opponent back, which is immediately followed up with an attack.

That is precisely how I feel.

[iunojupiter]

Do you not train any of the following?
'go lou cai'
'cai san shou'
'shuang feng shou'
'tou zhan di lou'
'tiao bao chui'
'tiao bao cha chui'
'tiao bu chui'
'mo pan shou'
'tou zhan'
'deng pu'
'deng ta'

go lou cai
I know for sure that I've practiced that, but even then, they're all independent movements. You're not doing any two actions at the same time that occupy both hands. While one is doing go, lou, or cai, the other is free to defend.
As for the others, I may have practiced them, but have never memorized the names. (I'm a horrible student in that regard).
While I agree in theory with you and xiao yao about the press being enough to cause the body alignment to block the other arm, my personal concern is if they are able to negate my seal and still have their other arm free to hit me, my two hands/arms are now occupied trying to control their one.
I think the reason I have a problem with a double seal or a double pluck or a double anything on one opponents extremity is that my teacher is very skilled at chen taiji and committing two hands/arms to one of his is like suicide
Like I said, it's me with the issue. I don't think the technique is invalid or anything.

[mooyingmantis]

zhan 粘 stick
nian 粘 adhere
bang 帮 double handed press/push
tie 贴 lean (body to body contact)
lai 来 approaching
jiao 叫 provoking
shun 顺 moving along
song 送 moving against
ti 提 lift
na 拿 grab
feng 封 seal
bi 闭 close

Thank you!

These are the same as the ones Su Yu Zhang lists for his Mimen Tanglangquan.

Would you equate shun 顺 "moving along" with "yielding"?

[xiao yao]

I think yielding is pretty much the same thing. I dont understand all the 12 words thoroughly, Im going through them one by one analysing each one.

Today I talked to master zhou about Jiao. Jiao literally means "to call" and he likened it to "knocking on the door to make someone answer" for example if we take the opponents arms to be their door, then we can use jabs or prods to their guard to make them attack. another example is swift parries against the opponents attacks. this would be followed by Bi "to close the door", whereby you close your guard (like the way the hands move after hopping back from a yuan yang jiao)

[mooyingmantis]

Thank you!

Great explanation of "jiao".

shun 顺 and song 送 seem to be couplets. One deals with yielding, the other with standing firm or clashing. Is this on target?

[xiao yao]

Those two Im not sure about. I took the English translation from a post of mantis quarterly. I assume as Song in everyday use means "to see somebody off" or "accompany somebody" that it would mean to force the opponent away and to follow them with attacks as they retreat. Does that sound about right?