Closed kwoons

[Baritsumaster]

I am devastated that my kwoon has closed, a victim of the economy and a lack of students interested in the traditional ways. I hear of other schools that I assumed were very successful, with DVD's and merchandise for sale, having to curtail events and give up permanent space. What is to become of us? Will our only choices be wushu or MMA? I will never give up my traditional arts, but I admit I am discouraged.

[jdhowland]

Sorry to hear this. The decline of the commercial kwoon may mean that more instructors have to find other work and may not be able to dedicate as much time and energy to teaching.

One result is that more of us may give up on the idea of teaching classes of students and go back to the idea of finding one or two who really want it. Most students are in it for fashion and prestige anyway. "It's cool, (esoteric, exotic, intimidating) so if I go to this class I am cool, too." One of my teachers has had no more than five students at a time and he likes it that way. Teaching for more than 40 years, never charging a cent, and you know what?--He has a really solid core of students who are carrying on the tradition. When the fads are gone we will still be here and sociologists and anthropologists will write theses about it.

My sifu lost his kwoon in San Francisco's Chinatown many years ago because of city codes. His basement school had no emergency egress. Now he teaches out of his home. The students are still there.

One alternative is to form a cooperative. Get someone to teach yoga, pilates and cardio-kickboxing. Let them pay for the space and then use it for free. That's what I do.

[hskwarrior]

This is why i like teaching at parks.

[doug maverick]

i have a friend who runs a successful traditional kung fu school here in the heart of Manhattan, which weather you know it or not is in the top five most expensive real estate in the world, he has two floors, and as pilot schools all around the city, im hoping to write an article about his school and hopefully he can give some pointers on how to stay traditional but still change with the times.

[MasterKiller]

Sounds like you guys didn't bring enough chicken sandwiches to your Sifu.

[hskwarrior]

Sounds like you guys didn't bring enough chicken sandwiches to your Sifu.

oh stop being a bitter betty. LMAO.....you must be mad you don't have students who want to do things for you like this. must suck huh? i wouldn't know about that. my student brings me paskrammi sammiches.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Teaching traditional is easy. It's not any harder or more boring than Crossfit training. The issue that is the problem is that one has to make their primary career 'Business marketing' to keep a school open. You can't just hang your hat and teach. You have to literally find the students, rope them in and make them pay.

The TKD guys are exceptionally good at this.

What or how you teach is irrelevant. You aren't in the Kung Fu business. You are in the marketing business.

[David Jamieson]

I don't make my living from teaching Kung Fu.

So, I don't have to compromise to the almighty dollar about anything Kung Fu in that regards.

If you make it your livelihood, you are gonna have to eat a bit of sh1t sandwich more. Just remember that the more bread you have, the less sh1t it seems you are eating.

If it's not your source of income, you can approach it differently.

[MasterKiller]

oh stop being a bitter betty. LMAO.....you must be mad you don't have students who want to do things for you like this. must suck huh? i wouldn't know about that. my student brings me paskrammi sammiches.

The only thing my guys bring me are the belts they win in competition.

[GeneChing]

From our perspective, we don't see a decline in traditional school purchases that is significantly larger than the modern styles. There has been a general overall decline due to the economy, but that shows some evidence of recovery now. The hidden factor, of course, is that many traditional schools don't require brick-and-mortar schools. As long as enthusiasts like yourself maintain the traditions, it's in no jeopardy. Don't be discouraged, Baritsumaster. When one door is closed, another is open.

[Jimbo]

Baritsumaster, sorry to hear about your school's closing.

There was also a decline in kung fu schools in the mid-1970s. This was due to it being the post-Bruce Lee era. During the few years following his death, there were not only real traditional schools, but also a lot of karate, etc., schools claiming to teach 'kung fu' that were closing their doors. The fad for BL and the Kung Fu TV series was over.

But many of the traditional schools survived.

I wouldn't worry about these arts disappearing. Like everything else, it waxes and wanes. I suppose I'm lucky, since I no longer teach any students, so my only concern in MA is my own ability to train. It may sound selfish, but if I were to worry about the state of CMA, or MA in general, etc., it's just taking on unnecessary stress, which doesn't accomplish anything.

[Shaolin]

Teaching traditional is easy. It's not any harder or more boring than Crossfit training. The issue that is the problem is that one has to make their primary career 'Business marketing' to keep a school open. You can't just hang your hat and teach. You have to literally find the students, rope them in and make them pay.

The TKD guys are exceptionally good at this.

What or how you teach is irrelevant. You aren't in the Kung Fu business. You are in the marketing business.

I agree.

I myself have had excellent traditional instructors who didn't know how to run a business. As a result they closed their schools pretty quick. To these individuals I'd recommend teaching in a park, their home, a community center, of subleasing space.

To those of you who do want to teach full time but are struggling because of lack of business knowledge and skill I recommend this book to get started:

The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It

http://www.amazon.com/The-E-Myth-Rev...1577514&sr=8-1


Ask yourself this:

How much time and effort did it take you to get your first black belt?

How much time and effort are you investing now to further progress your martial knowledge?

Are you willing to put that same amount of time and effort into making your business successful?

[GeneChing]

Bemoaning the death of traditional always seems weak to me. Not to implicate you at all, Baritsumaster - I've been at school closings and it's a total bum out, so your grief is understandable and appropriate. But when people complain about traditional dying out because of wushu/mma/coronal mass ejections, that's just weak. It dies out when you stop practicing it. If you don't want it to die out, keep practicing. Don't blame others.

The survival of tradition rests depends upon us.

[Lucas]

coronal mass ejections are the cause of all that is ill with my life.

[wolf3001]

Our school closed years ago my Sifu is a local farmer and has not been able to keep up with things. We had few new students coming in and he was paying some of the bills out of his own pocket. He still grades us but my friend and I have been trying to keep things going. We teach privately out of his house with little to no help from our instructors. My Sifu and his wife taught several people in our area to instructor level but no one has a school here. I believe that my Sifu's training methods lacked the excitement that many want to see from martial arts training. I know when I did Tae Kwon Do I was shocked at how little we did in the way of actual fighting. I know you want to train safe and not injure students but tonight one of our guys had a bloody nose. I have been hit several times in class gone home with bruises and so has everyone in our class. People expect more from martial arts schools than simply doing predetermined routines and Chi Sau.

When I did TKD we did a lot of stuff in the air and when we finally sparred it was so far removed from reality it was horrifying to me so I left and never went back. My Wing Chun teacher wouldn't listen to me when I suggested we get sparring gear and allow advanced students to really go at it. We didn't really spar but in our private class my friends and I spar just about every class. It's hard to find anyone who really wants to learn everyone has unrealistic views on martial arts and so everyone is going to MMA school now. I think schools are going to have to change to survive I can not believe that our local Karate school has stayed open when it's so expensive. Our classes monthly were $30 for kids and $40 for adults 2 classes a week. Some of our students now can't afford anything but we teach them anyway out of our private school.