Registered User
I've just found this old issue of Black Belt Mag; http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I...page&q&f=false
It mentions (p.71) that as well as the core Goju and To'on ryu katas, Higashionna brought back a white crane form from China. Anyone know anything about it?
Thanks in advance.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
One of the main historical theory is that Higashionna sensei trained in a southern style of kung fu, quite probably a white crane version, although some believe that it was five ancestors or perhaps even a combo of both.Originally Posted by elu296
He of course modified the Katas to have a more "okinawan" flavour to them ( changes the open hand into fists for example).
The Hakatsuru ( whie crane) form was, supposedly, kept secret and taught only to the person that was gonna carry on the lineage.
Another version is that Miyagi was taught it in his trips to Southern China and yet another is that Miyagi created it himself.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Greetings,
Wasn't there a person by the name of Gokenki, a White Crane Master, who lived in Okinawa?
mickey
choppin dat pork
I think this is what you're looking for...
http://youtu.be/INg8oQ8YQLk
A comparison of Nipaipo and Ershiba
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
That is an excellent series, Kung fu quest.
I wonder where one cna get it and with subtitiles...
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
LOL, found it:
http://www.moviesuper.com/moviesuper...quest-dvd.aspx
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
That is only the first series. The 2nd series deals with White Crane and I don't think it is available yet???
Ron Goninan
China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
White Crane Research Institute Inc
http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
A seeker of the way
choppin dat pork
Finally got around to watching that one I posted.
It was posted on facebook with the description that it was a comparison between the 2 forms; I didn't realize that it was just 2 white crane guys reading through the kuen po of the okinawan white crane form.
I'll try to find a good video of the okinawan white crane form.
I learned a softer version of it back during my form collecting days and I was told it was a fukien form.
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
Junior Member
More modern research indicates that Kanryo only taught 4 kata; Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiryu and Suparempei since this also matches the other Naha-te styles of Uechi and To'un Ryu (Uechi admitted to not learning the full Suparempei while in China).
It is believed that Miyagi created the other kata as seen in Goju Ryu, whether through the direct supervision of Kanryo or on his own.
When it comes to tracking the influence of hakatsuru, it is hard because "White crane" styles can vary greatly in China. You have Fujian White Crane which is very similar to the other southern styles and then you have something like Tibetan White Crane that is more northern in appearance of very long arm techniques. From other sources I have read the Hakatsuru was created by masters of their beliefs and training experience with White Crane and that the katas will vary depending on school and weren't a specific kata taught.
"God gave you a brain, and it annoys Him greatly when you choose not to use it."
choppin dat pork
Not to be argumentative, but there are some parts that are unclear in your post.
Tibetan white crane and Fukien white crane are only similar in the name of the school; much like northern mantis and southern mantis, they don't really have anything to do with one another.
Naha-te hakutsuru (白鶴拳) is quite clearly based off of Fujian styles (Fukien White Crane and/or Ngor Chor/Wuzu, which has White Crane roots). There are 5 main styles of Fujian white crane. Okinawan karate is usually identified with Whooping Crane (and sometimes Feeding Crane). http://youtu.be/e9QZmXhCA9I
The Fujian white crane form the OP was asking about does exist in Okinawan karate. I've seen it performed by members of the Hokama family. I'm just having a hard time finding videos for comparison because I only have about 20 minutes in the evening to myself where I can watch youtube videos.
Last edited by Pork Chop; 03-15-2012 at 07:00 AM.
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
Junior Member
You are very correct about the north/south thing. That is what I was trying to point out. I have seen some look to the Northern Crane and say that it looks nothing like okinawan karate and therefore is a myth and not an influence.
Here is the Fujian white crane form of San Zhan (Sanchin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IpHR...eature=related
You can definately see the roots of Goju-Ryu, as it is VERY much like the Naha-te versions of it.
Here is Tibetan white crane, as you can see it looks nothing like the Fujian white crane (which was my point, many "white crane" katas I have seen look more like the Tibetan long arm stuff than the tight in close Fujian white crane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF6sSWharGk
Here is an okinawan version of Hakatsuru, there are different versions, because again it was not a set kata per se but a kata based on the teachings and understandings of the chinese white crane system and passed on within a specific system/style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encHYcCQgxc
and another version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3hA...eature=related
The Matsumuru version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr9xn...eature=related
Just like many other katas of the same name, it taught lessons and wasn't set in stone like now. Goju-Ryu didn't create their katas based on exchanges with chinese envoys on okinawa like many of the Shuri-based systems and kata (Wansu, Chinto, Kusanku for example). It is my belief that the Hakatsuru kata was also created in much the same way as these other Shuri-based katas. By okinawans based on the lessons they learned from their experiences with the chinese teachers.
Goju-Ryu differs because the katas were learned IN China and then brought back to okinawa where they were passed on. Even though some were a part of the crane system. To put it simply, Goju-Ryu would not have the Hakatsuru kata or training methodology seperate from it's main katas like the Shuri based styles since it was a main part of what was being passed on.
"God gave you a brain, and it annoys Him greatly when you choose not to use it."
choppin dat pork
Ah, now I understand.
Thanks for the clarification.
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Again, the history of Goju-ryu and it's katas are still much debated and no one knows for sure.
What most all agree is that:
Higashionna learned a southern system of Kung fu while in Southern China.
Upon his return to Okinawa he modified the katas to be more "okinawan" and taught them to some people, amongst them Chojun Miyagi.
Miyagi went to southern China on his own to further develop his Karate.
Upon his return and after sometime if further modified the katas he knew and the new ones he had been taught and brought back from China.
There was much intermixing of katas and training between the different Okinawan styles and they borrowed freely amongst each other.
After sometime, anally retentive "lineage holders" took over and the whole system of freely sharing and cooperating went to ****.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
