Triangle Palms - YKS

[Yoshiyahu]

ABOVE IS A PICTURE OF THE TRIANGLE PALMS


1. Dispersing - Tan Sau
2. Supporting - Wu Sau
3. Cultivating - Gan Sau

In the video of Stan demostrating applications which are technique based for you prinicple purist. He is showing an application for the Wu or Pak along with Tan Sau.


TIME STAMP 1:04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nJb3...eature=related

He intially intercepts with Man Sau (Asking hand) then from there precedes to reidrect the next punch from the bridge. This is from the Siu Lien Tao form. He Breaks down the techniques for you to show you how it is used. For those who don't understand or practice this way. What you are seeing will be foriegn to you!

[LoneTiger108]

It is amazing to continue to see this sort of clip on Youtube, and I would be concerned that your man here 'Stan' really has little to no clue about Wing Chun basics (let alone representing YKS so openly like this)

And let me be perfectly clear. This 'drill' (or part of it) is not foreign to me at all, but I think Stan is far too concerned with trying to make something work instead of simply using the drill to interact and train his student to a higher standard.

Why do you continue to use Stans clips to start discussions? Why not film a few of your own?

[Jubei1]

Hmmm...

Yoshi, are you Stan?

[LFJ]

Hmmm...

Yoshi, are you Stan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybN8e...feature=relmfu

[Wayfaring]

Hmmm...

Yoshi, are you Stan?

No, I think he is Clarence. Stan is his WCK teacher.

[wtxs]

Hmmm...

Yoshi, are you Stan?

No, I think he is Clarence. Stan is his WCK teacher.

You guys stop kidding around ... COULD it be true?

[Yoshiyahu]

NO, I AM NOT STAN THE MAN...SORRY FOLKS..

Nor am i his son in the videos or his student. I am his Sidai. My Teacher doesnt have youtube videos...


ne way its all good...


im glad you guys enjoyed the clips an are learning from them!

It is amazing to continue to see this sort of clip on Youtube, and I would be concerned that your man here 'Stan' really has little to no clue about Wing Chun basics (let alone representing YKS so openly like this)

And let me be perfectly clear. This 'drill' (or part of it) is not foreign to me at all, but I think Stan is far too concerned with trying to make something work instead of simply using the drill to interact and train his student to a higher standard.

Why do you continue to use Stans clips to start discussions? Why not film a few of your own?

Hmmm...

Yoshi, are you Stan?

GET BACK ON TOPIC. Care to share anything about the Triangle Palms

[JPinAZ]

Besides another horrible video of stand the clown, if I remember correctly, the 3 pictures in the OP were of a bad tann sau, a fook sau and and incorrectly structured gaan sau. (The OP is on my ignore list so can't check)
I have no idea why this thread is called "Triangle Palms" since the above techniques really have nothing to do with palms except maybe which way the palm is supposed to be facing.

Taan sau's intended contact point is the midpoint on the forearm in application (not referring to Taanbongfook chi sau ready position, but how to actually 'spread' the energy of an incoming attack).

Fook sau typically makes contact with the wrist striking point and knife edge part of the hand, but the focus is really about elbow covering the line.

Lower gaan sau typically makes contact again with wrist striking point palm facing to the outside.

BTW, Wayfaring is correct, Yoshi's real name is Clarence.

[LoneTiger108]

GET BACK ON TOPIC. Care to share anything about the Triangle Palms

Ok Yoshi/Clarence...

Give me something else to go with because from what I see, and from what I understand to be a use of 'triangle palm', they are poles apart...

Firstly - The SEED of Tan, Fook and Bong as shown in the Dummy pics is rotated in sequence during this type of interaction, and Stan is not doing this. His basic level is very evident as he swings back and forth repeating the SEED in/out etc rather than staying to the method you talk of and then, to make matters worse, he starts to 'dive-in' to a loose 'Sansau attack method. Not good imho.

Secondly - The SEED relates directly to the 'techniques' of Mun, Wu and Gaan buut you need to understand the posturing first and exactly what the supporting hand is doing. Stan does not seem to be connected to this idea at all.

Third and finally - There are various ways of interpreting the 'traingle palm' method. One: you create a triangle of 'intent' at the back/base of the thumb to project a traingular shape of the hand in each SEED. Two: there is a refernce from my own training where this triangle is related directly to the contact target ie. the bends of elbows/knees, the under arms etc called 'saam gok jeung' which is trained specifically on our Mook Yan Jong.

I do not have a problem with the quality/standard of Wing Chun in Stans clips. he is simply doing what he is doing. BUT when you have many many people who have dedicated more than half their lives to the system it tends to get a bit tedious seeing such levels of skill (or lack of) being touted as 'Sifu' quality. And if you are his SiHing, I would hold YOU responsible for his standard lol!!

So, rather than pummeling the boards with all these threads, I would ask that you pay Stan a visit and work harder at raising HIS game if he wants to be taken seriously as a Sifu in this big bad World of Wing Chun today

[Yoshiyahu]

Well i said Stan is my Sihing, Big brother. He's been training WC longer than I have. I started training when I was teenager. I believe he had five years or more on me by then.

Let me digress. I see your discuing the techniques or principles behind triangle palms. Great...

As for Stan i dont see on his videos where he is saying he is a Sifu. he is passing his WC on to his Son. Who is in the video.

In the video he is not demostrating the Triangle Palms as you have on picture. He is demostrating a section in Siu Lien Tao form. He is showing a possible application for it...Where he demostrates Man Sau to intercept intial attack, from there he wu sau or pak sau an incoming attack. An then tan sau the second punch coming next. I am the one who is correlating his application to the triangle palms because stan is showing how you apply those techniques with a real like person. In other words With triangle plams on the wooden dummy it starts off with tan than wu then gan. But this is just a mere principle. You can tweak it as you like. I start it off with Wu sau then tan sau then jum sau...But the video stan has is showing two of the techniques. The wu sau and tan sau. So i simply shared the video so you can see how the two techniques are utilize on a real living person. If you know of any videos that are better please share!

The way i do triangle is different

Wu Sau
Tan Sau
Jum Sau

When you do something on the dummy the posistioning is slightly different than a live person. When you drill with a person your energy is different. you have to change the energy so the technique will work correctly.

But i dont see what he is doing as bad as you guys do. Infact i see the same stuff in other peoples videos on youtube he being doing WC for decades like stan has!

If you doubt his gung fu...by all means i suggest you meet up with him an show him what real wing chun is.

I enjoy training with him. He is alot fun to spar with with as well as chi sau. When i say spar i dont mean chi sau!

Ok Yoshi/Clarence...

Give me something else to go with because from what I see, and from what I understand to be a use of 'triangle palm', they are poles apart...

Firstly - The SEED of Tan, Fook and Bong as shown in the Dummy pics is rotated in sequence during this type of interaction, and Stan is not doing this. His basic level is very evident as he swings back and forth repeating the SEED in/out etc rather than staying to the method you talk of and then, to make matters worse, he starts to 'dive-in' to a loose 'Sansau attack method. Not good imho.

Secondly - The SEED relates directly to the 'techniques' of Mun, Wu and Gaan buut you need to understand the posturing first and exactly what the supporting hand is doing. Stan does not seem to be connected to this idea at all.

Third and finally - There are various ways of interpreting the 'traingle palm' method. One: you create a triangle of 'intent' at the back/base of the thumb to project a traingular shape of the hand in each SEED. Two: there is a refernce from my own training where this triangle is related directly to the contact target ie. the bends of elbows/knees, the under arms etc called 'saam gok jeung' which is trained specifically on our Mook Yan Jong.

I do not have a problem with the quality/standard of Wing Chun in Stans clips. he is simply doing what he is doing. BUT when you have many many people who have dedicated more than half their lives to the system it tends to get a bit tedious seeing such levels of skill (or lack of) being touted as 'Sifu' quality. And if you are his SiHing, I would hold YOU responsible for his standard lol!!

So, rather than pummeling the boards with all these threads, I would ask that you pay Stan a visit and work harder at raising HIS game if he wants to be taken seriously as a Sifu in this big bad World of Wing Chun today

[Yoshiyahu]

You do know the pictures your calling is bad...is from the YKS webpage right...


why you disrespecting them i suggest you check them out...

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/...ces/index.html

Besides another horrible video of stand the clown, if I remember correctly, the 3 pictures in the OP were of a bad tann sau, a fook sau and and incorrectly structured gaan sau. (The OP is on my ignore list so can't check)
I have no idea why this thread is called "Triangle Palms" since the above techniques really have nothing to do with palms except maybe which way the palm is supposed to be facing.

Taan sau's intended contact point is the midpoint on the forearm in application (not referring to Taanbongfook chi sau ready position, but how to actually 'spread' the energy of an incoming attack).

Fook sau typically makes contact with the wrist striking point and knife edge part of the hand, but the focus is really about elbow covering the line.

Lower gaan sau typically makes contact again with wrist striking point palm facing to the outside.

BTW, Wayfaring is correct, Yoshi's real name is Clarence.

[LoneTiger108]

Well i said Stan is my Sihing, Big brother. He's been training WC longer than I have. I started training when I was teenager. I believe he had five years or more on me by then.

Things are beginning to make sense.

In the video he is not demostrating the Triangle Palms as you have on picture. He is demostrating a section in Siu Lien Tao form.

Now that makes more sense! But why start athread on Triangle Palm and show a clip that has nothing to do with it??

Do you approach your own Wing Chun learning in the same wayward manner??

The way i do triangle is different

Wu Sau
Tan Sau
Jum Sau

When you do something on the dummy the posistioning is slightly different than a live person. When you drill with a person your energy is different. you have to change the energy so the technique will work correctly.

How long have you been training Wing Chun again? Like, Wing Chun only, not any other arts?

he (Stan) being doing WC for decades like stan has!

Now that is quite surprising to me. When you say 'doing Wing Chun' whay exactly do you mean?? Who is his Sifu and how long did he learn directly with him for? Or has he simply had an 'interest' in Wing Chun for decades and been to a few Seminars??

If you doubt his gung fu...by all means i suggest you meet up with him an show him what real wing chun is.

As you say, he isn't saying he is a Sifu or anything. Just teaching his kid. I would always meet with anyone who wanted to exchange Wing Chun ideas, but I am in no way saying I have 'real Wing Chun' dude. Just very different. Can I say, I take my own training a little more seriously?

[Yoshiyahu]

Things are beginning to make sense.

Im glad things are getting revealed for you

Now that makes more sense! But why start a thread on Triangle Palm and show a clip that has nothing to do with it??

Do you approach your own Wing Chun learning in the same wayward manner??

The reason for starting the thread is to show the correlation of triangle palms being used on a live person instead of wooden dummy. The Wu Sau and Tan Sau as it is done on the dummy is static. Where as the Wu Sau and Tan sau Stan is doing is alive. It shows how those two techniques interelate.



How long have you been training Wing Chun again? Like, Wing Chun only, not any other arts?

Well i been training WC since I was about 16 so that makes a little over 16 years. I trained privately with my Sifu for about five years. Then took a break from WC for about two years. But I still did sparring and chi sau with my sidai. Got back to training again publically with him when i was about 22 or 23. Somewhere around there. But also begin to doing Tai Chi, Baguazhang and Wing Chun. Basically it wasnt as formal concerning the WC just mere corrections. But i eventually started doing some training with his Sihing Mike Burnside. Also I started training with Stan around 27 or 29 years of age. Still See woody(My Sifu) from time to time. I am 35 now. Ne way let me digress. I do not only practice WC. But it is my based art. He started us off with some basic stuff in tiger and crane and the five elements. I didnt study that long enough to fight effiecently with it. But what i did learn i can apply with my Wing Chun.

Now that is quite surprising to me. When you say 'doing Wing Chun' whay exactly do you mean?? Who is his Sifu and how long did he learn directly with him for? Or has he simply had an 'interest' in Wing Chun for decades and been to a few Seminars??

As for Stan he first started off doing Karate. I cant give you exact years you need to asked him. His Sifu is Mike Burnside. He learn directly from Mike I wanna say Ten years maybe more. But he too also did Tai Chi as well. Stan also learn directly from Robert McField. Thats when McField begin to incorporate Choy Li Fut into curriculm too. I dont know if its good or bad. i cant be the judge since I never really seen it first hand. They have a side body WC style too they incorporate. But ne way. Let me digress. He has being doing WC meaning for over 20 years which means Practicing the forms, Chi Sau, Sparring other martial styles and street fighters, Drilling the Wooden Man and wooden dummy form, Practicing the pole form and drills, Hitting a wall bag, kicking a heavy bag and punching it, dropping down force on a iron palm bag with steel shots, running, lifting weights, and doing many of the other strength and condition skills we have in our system.

As you say, he isn't saying he is a Sifu or anything. Just teaching his kid. I would always meet with anyone who wanted to exchange Wing Chun ideas, but I am in no way saying I have 'real Wing Chun' dude. Just very different. Can I say, I take my own training a little more seriously?

I disagree. i dont believe there is a such thing as Real or Fake wing chun. There is good and bad Wing chun. Some people have a shell of wing chun where they imploy westernize principles and concepts. Some people have traditional based Wing Chun where they imploy more of purist concept and principles. I like a little of both, Traditional Purist pricinples and concepts and I also pull from westernize ideology and principles too. Depending on the sitituation. I firmly believe I have authenic Wing Chun as you might insinuate from Real Wing Chun. I know the wing chun I learn is very good despite what some may believe from looking at Stans Videos. It is what it is. I will say our Wing Chun is very different from most of you. The principles alone is alien to what most of the people do on forums with the exceptions to a very few i have spoken with or read their post in various threads. That doesn't make others WC bad or good. Just different. I always say its not the system that matters but the indiviuals way of expressing it. The way I express, innovate and translate my Wing Chun is completely different than the way Stan Does his. I train differently than he does because I was taught differently, i am built differently and my persona and mindframe is different than his. So our WC will have similiaries but difference by way of expression. The same as your WC is different from your Sifu's and your WC brothers and sisters.

Martial Style doesn't matter. What matters is the person who expresses it.

[LoneTiger108]

I disagree. i dont believe there is a such thing as Real or Fake wing chun.

Funny. I didn't say you did dude! I was merely throwing YOUR OWN words back atchya, as it sounded like you were saying that if I wanted to show Stan 'my real Wing Chun' then contact him or something!??

I enjoyed reading your other replies, and it is ever more clear to me what it is you are doing with your Wing Chun.

I always say its not the system that matters but the indiviuals way of expressing it. The way I express, innovate and translate my Wing Chun is completely different than the way Stan Does his. I train differently than he does because I was taught differently, i am built differently and my persona and mindframe is different than his. So our WC will have similiaries but difference by way of expression. The same as your WC is different from your Sifu's and your WC brothers and sisters.

Martial Style doesn't matter. What matters is the person who expresses it.

This post gives me a better picture of your understanding I think.

I believe The System is KEY. It can not be manipulated. It is fixed. It is more than what Ip Man taught in HK, and it has connections to both the Red Boats and Shaolin Temple, Kulo, Fatshan and the rest of the World through individual promotions! The System is, was and forever will be 'written down'. It's a map, if you like, of everything the original founder/s wanted to pass on.

If you want a modern interpretation, it is like what Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Gung Fu is to JKD. An original template for everything to grow from.

The STYLE is completely individual. This is where the changes happen, and what you are doing is simply 'your own thing' by the sound of it, possibly no different to your Sifu and his. Am I right?

[Eric_H]

You do know the pictures your calling is bad...is from the YKS webpage right...


why you disrespecting them i suggest you check them out...

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/...ces/index.html

I don't think it's disrespectful, simply calling a spade a spade. FWIW, neither Wing Chun I've learned would consider those moves, especially that tan sao, to be well structured.