The New Wing Chun!

[free2flow]

Personally, if i was to start a new MA the last thing id do would be to start with theories and concepts... id try some fighting, see what works and doesnt work, and then id break down what happened. THEN i might start talking concepts/theories

I think doing it the other way is putting the horse before the cart

I agree, if you want to start a new MA and all you have are theories, then maybe you're not yet in the position to do it. Actual experience in fighting is key. Theory is improtant but IMHO it boils down to "timing", when to do it. And that only comes after actual experience/interaction with another person.

[Yoshiyahu]

ooh i will travel by boat!

Efficient and effective must go hand-in-hand.

Taking your example of the vertical fist:
First off any good punch (vertical fist or otherwise) is a whole body movement.
The fist being vertical is irrelevant to power really, studies have shown this over and over and we have seen the boxers have been shown to have some of the most powerful punches.

A con to the vertical fist is that it leaves you open to overhand counters such as cross, overhands and hooks, whereas the "boxer punch" covers your jaw and beck better.

As you can see, its a trade off of sorts....

Not across the Pacific Ocean you won't, d0rkboy

[GlennR]

ooh i will travel by boat!

Here's hoping for a typhoon

[Yoshiyahu]

Here's hoping for a typhoon

dont be a hater!

[GlennR]

dont be a hater!

Sharks would be good as well

[anerlich]

ooh i will travel by boat!

I have a lot of sympathy for genuine refugees trying to get to Australia by boat, but not in this particular case.

[lance]

When I started this thread, I really meant for it to be serious. But like many other topics on this board this has somehow gone astray.

Let's start again. Knowing what you know now, if you were to create a "new art" (we don't need to give it a name) what principals and theories would you include in it, how would you teach it, would there be forms, weapons, what kind of horse, and most importantly - for what reason? Everything must be logical.

No firearms, grenades or anything stupid please. And no more JKD talk (we know that doesn't work LOL).

Let's begin with concepts and ideas for this art before we even talk about the actual training of it.

I'll start.

Efficiency - the art must be efficient so that one can accomplish the most with the least amount of effort. And for many reasons. Fast results and conservation of energy would be top factors. And because it must be efficient, I think that some of the movements need to be direct such as perhaps a linear punch with force driven by the elbow but backed up by the structural strength of the shoulder. I feel that there are advantages of having the fist in the vertical position when it is thrown. I feel that holding the fist in a vertical position feels quite natural and allows the elbow to drop and point downwards offering the ribcage some protection as the punch is thrown as well as it's return.

Anyone want to add to this one? If not, we can start on other theories.

Since WC is a chinese martial art , I would keep the punches and the uppercuts , and the backfists strikes , and I ' ll look into other sytems of kung fu like choy li fut , and take what WC don ' t have that punch which is similar to a hooking type of punch , and figure out how to make it simple to apply , the reverse punch . And before I go into boxing type of punches I would see if theres' any punch in the other system of kung fu have punches that are similar to boxing . WC allready has those simultaneous defense and attacks , I would take all the chin na moves and grappling moves from diiferent system of kung fu like northern and southern systems of kung fu and put it all together .

And since WC as well as other system of kung fu regardless of southern and northern all contains set . I would discect the sets from the forms and the applications . And take what I need . Okay , this is just me now , since high kicks can be defended against in a self defense or a fight situation I would keep the low kicks , and the medium high kicks . I would also keep the finger jab strikes , palm strikes , and the striking techniques which the 3 forms contains , in other words I would take the techniques from the different systems of kung fu , to make my own WC more practical and efficient and simple . And still keep the thoeries of WC and the concepts too . the elbow from the 3 - forms of WC , and modify the ranges of attack which is grappling , kicking , striking . Since everybody has their own individual ideas of their own WC in general , this is the way my own WC would be .

[Frost]

I've always stated that if you took two fighters and put them in a bubble with the idea to develop a close in fighting system, it would naturally develop the following characteristics:
It would have a close stance,chin tucked, elbows in to protect the vital areas.points, nerve endings, liver, groin etc.hands forward to intercept immediately, rather than simply cover, although covering skills need to be developed.
It would need to develop a short power delivery system
It would need to have reaction/sensitivity as the fighters are so close that not to would result in just standing there getting hit
vital target areas would be targeted-at close range, large movements would create too many openings, so the preference would be shorter strikes-however, there need to be finishing strikes/coup de gras
primary weapons would be punches utilizing all angles of attack-straight, hook, uppercut.
Phoenix-eye,ginger fist, leopard, fingers, claws, etc elbows, forearms, knees, short kicks
it would need evasive footwork, flanking, shifting, etc
it would need grappling
it would also need longer range tactics-not simply for closing, but to be able to attack and defend at all ranges
it would need a fighting philosophy of immediately shutting the person down, on the first beat,(intercepting opponent's intent) and continuing with pressure and multiple strikes until the person is finished.

And then the fighter met a thai boxer in close and that all went to pot as he got kneed and elbowed unconscious, which is what happened to the wing chun guys in the 60's i believe for the most part

[lance]

Inosanto teaches JKD as a style, he has stated this himself. Enough said. I respect him, but he hasnt been able to teach it as it should be taught and has muddled the water.

Simply it should be MMA training with foul tactics. Whether Wing Chun techniques is incorporated, well thats up to you.

Niersen , why has ' nt dan able to teach JKD as it was taught to him by bruce ?
Even dan said it himself that JKD is a concept not a style , in which you take techniques that really work for you , and you reject what does ' nt work for you , and you keep what is really your own . I know that you don ' t want to hear anymore , but I have that question ? You don ' t need to reply if you don ' t want to , I ' m going to find the answers myself .

[Happy Tiger]

I would definitely coordinate it with a comprehensive, integrated groundfighting scheme based upon the principles of VT.