Punching people in the face?

[Phil Redmond]

On a more positive direction, I feel the reason many assume this action to be an uppercut comes from missing striking concepts early on....

So are you're saying that all the Sifus around the world who teach the uppercut are "missing striking concepts" and that only you and your lineage really understand Wing Chun? Does Philipp Bayer teach that only he has the real Wing Chun or is it just you who thinks so?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The uppercut is one of the most effective inside hand strikes ( or arm depending on the target surface used of course), one that every system has and what a sad statement on WC it would be IF WC didn't have it.
I mean, why on earth would a system NOT use a technique that has been proven to be highly effective over 1000's of years ???

[k gledhill]

There is a gou, jung, dai bong. But of course you use it where it's needed.




I said that there is none in our form. Not that I wouldn't use one.

Equally , why limit oneself .... No Limit as limit.

[k gledhill]

So are you're saying that all the Sifus around the world who teach the uppercut are "missing striking concepts" and that only you and your lineage really understand Wing Chun? Does Philipp Bayer teach that only he has the real Wing Chun or is it just you who thinks so?

There is a striking concept many are missing , yes. lin sil di da .

[Vajramusti]

The uppercut is one of the most effective inside hand strikes ( or arm depending on the target surface used of course), one that every system has and what a sad statement on WC it would be IF WC didn't have it.
I mean, why on earth would a system NOT use a technique that has been proven to be highly effective over 1000's of years ???

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True. And systems, styles and relevant lineages have their own mechanics for doing so and so does my wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

Some add hooks from bong sao too ....why not just make it boxing ? add bobbing and weaving and hey presto all the unhappy people will be happy again, and have hammer fists , because thats one of the most useful attacks. Oh wait lets add spinning reverse elbows !! We can make chi-sao dirty clinching and all be happy ever after with lots of DVD sales

Sticky dirty boxing uppercut DVD series

[Phil Redmond]

There is a striking concept many are missing , yes. lin sil di da .

All WC people understand simultaneous striking and blocking. But it can't be done on every occasion. Sometimes your "resisting" opponent won't allow it. A Boxer's weaving, slipping, and bobbing are a good example of that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wasn't it WSL that mentioned that he was criticized by some WC people when he won a fight with a knee strike because WC "had no knees"?
I believe I read that as he was speaking about the misconceptions some WC people have about what is and isn't WC...

[sanjuro_ronin]

So 'based on the view of SOME WC people, WC does NOT have:
Hooks, uppercuts, knees and elbows.
4 Techniques that have been proven to be very effective over and over again.
Makes one wonder why some peoples version of WC is so, well, limited and why they wouldn't use proven CLOSE RANGE fighting techniques in a close range fighting system *puzzled look*

[Phil Redmond]

Some add hooks from bong sao too ....why not just make it boxing ? add bobbing and weaving and hey presto all the unhappy people will be happy again, and have hammer fists , because thats one of the most useful attacks. Oh wait lets add spinning reverse elbows !! We can make chi-sao dirty clinching and all be happy ever after with lots of DVD sales

Sticky dirty boxing uppercut DVD series

So I guess you're referring to what we do. Yes, we do have a round punch and sometime it can be used after a bong lop. Especially if your target is the side of the mask in order to get knock out. Our guys have knocked people out with it so we're keeping it regardless of it's popularity.

[Phil Redmond]

So 'based on the view of SOME WC people, WC does NOT have:
Hooks, uppercuts, knees and elbows.
4 Techniques that have been proven to be very effective over and over again.
Makes one wonder why some peoples version of WC is so, well, limited and why they wouldn't use proven CLOSE RANGE fighting techniques in a close range fighting system *puzzled look*

People who don't try their WC against resisting opponents from other systems of fighting have all sorts of beliefs/theories/dogma. Yet they tend to preach to those who do pressure test.

[Phil Redmond]

Wasn't it WSL that mentioned that he was criticized by some WC people when he won a fight with a knee strike because WC "had no knees"?
I believe I read that as he was speaking about the misconceptions some WC people have about what is and isn't WC...

So according to some WSL was wrong since there is no knee in any of the forms . . .lol

[Vajramusti]

So 'based on the view of SOME WC people, WC does NOT have:
Hooks, uppercuts, knees and elbows.
4 Techniques that have been proven to be very effective over and over again.
Makes one wonder why some peoples version of WC is so, well, limited and why they wouldn't use proven CLOSE RANGE fighting techniques in a close range fighting system *puzzled look*

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Sanjuro-
No one can speak for all of wing chun. I do wing chun..I don't graft on things that conflict with my
wing chun structure, mechanics and dynamics. I don't do KG's version of PB's version of WC.
Hooks, uppercuts, knees and elbows are there in my hand forms and the dummy form- the knees are specially in the later sections of the dummy form and my sigung learned these things from Ip Man himself with whom he spent many long hours...before Ip chun joined his father. I respect Ip Man's students but there were differences among them on when, how and what they learned
from the grande maestro.
And what I do does not violate wc principles of simultaneity of attack.defense, motion linkages,
dealing with what comes etc. My wc is not western boxing. Words may be the same but the details of motions are style specific.
KG cannot generalize for every lineage of wing chun -though he tries.Just as I don't speak for what PB does.pr KG does or VK does.

joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

Using the 'knee' event doesnt change the action in CK to be an uppercut.... not having every strike known to man in the form either doesnt mean VT wouldnt use something like it ....if the situation allowed the time to think about it, sure why not.
I have had fights that I repeatedly upper cutted a guy covering up froman attack...I have elbowed too, eye jabbed hit guys with bottles , chairs, kicked guys in the heads as they tried to get up again....not in the form.

Now class the bar stool form with bottle smash, and with me....

But then the form isnt a kata its unifying an idea with mobility and angling. Why doesnt the chum kil have a hook ? or a knee lift ? or an uppercut ...

Conceptually driven skills for combat with any other skill set. We dont see guys as a 'boxer' or a kick boxer simply because VT is dealing with the idea you DONT have foreknowledge of the skill set before you in the opponents....
We would have a telephone book full of potential moves for every occasion along with every striking action known to man.

[k gledhill]

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Sanjuro-
No one can speak for all of wing chun. I do wing chun..I don't graft on things that conflict with my
wing chun structure, mechanics and dynamics. I don't do KG's version of PB's version of WC.
Hooks, uppercuts, knees and elbows are there in my hand forms and the dummy form- the knees are specially in the later sections of the dummy form and my sigung learned these things from Ip Man himself with whom he spent many long hours...before Ip chun joined his father. I respect Ip Man's students but there were differences among them on when, how and what they learned
from the grande maestro.
And what I do does not violate wc principles of simultaneity of attack.defense, motion linkages,
dealing with what comes etc. My wc is not western boxing. Words may be the same but the details of motions are style specific.
KG cannot generalize for every lineage of wing chun -though he tries.Just as I don't speak for what PB does.pr KG does or VK does.

joy chaudhuri

Joys chosen way doesnt share the same concepts as mine, agreed.