Fanche

[Yao Sing]

I see what you point out but I don't see any form of Fanche there.

Wah Lum has both downward and upward. In WL Straight Form the downward is followed by the upward version. Same with Lok Lo but that set also has the single downward swinging arm.

[MightyB]

No, that is the Laiyang Beng Bu version, I was talking about the Yantai Beng Bu version. The Yantai version is the one Brendan Lai is doing. Fanche shi is at 00:10.

But he's not - you can test in application.

I don't know all the fancy Cantonese terminology - so bear with me,

Do an ou lou choi where you take the step forward and end up left foot forward on a right hand initiated ou lou choi. Let your opponent block with his left upper gua. Just hold that position a bit - don't break contact with your right fist/forearm on his left gua - change your fist to a pluck, moving the pluck in a counter clockwise motion - your left, bung choi his face as you do the half-step with your rear leg to make up the distance.

[MightyB]

Hey, I did tell WHF or his student what to write. I just be reportin'! LOL!

here's some weirdness - in the retirement films online, if you watch what's being called Siu Fan Che, they do the triple goofy hoppy-chop thing - that's not in the siu fan che I remember. There's no goofy hopping at all, pure beat arseness... no goofyness.

[Yao Sing]

Post a link?

[mooyingmantis]

here's some weirdness - in the retirement films online, if you watch what's being called Siu Fan Che, they do the triple goofy hoppy-chop thing - that's not in the siu fan che I remember. There's no goofy hopping at all, pure beat arseness... no goofyness.

But that is how some of the other families do it, with the hops. The spinning windlass strikes are replaced by rising and falling forearm chops.

The reason you two are not seeing the fanche is because you are missing the fanche principle while looking for a technique that is called fanche in other forms.

Standing in place with the arms whirling downwards in near vertical arcs is only one way to apply the fanche principle.

The principle of fanche is that one hand rises, falls or swings across to knock away the opponent's arm to clear the way for the other attacking arm. This is made more clear in Xiao Fanche where the fanche principle is used rising, falling and horizontally.

As further evidence, Wong Hon Fan's description of the technique in Beng Bu never explains the left fist as a beng chui/bung cheui. In his description of the application, the term 翻 車 fān chē is used three times. While the character 翻 fān is used nines times.

Later I will take a stab at translating the entire passage.

[Yao Sing]

Based on your description of the principle you can find it all over the place in many different styles. CLF uses a Gwa Choi to break the guard followed by a palm strike to the face. That would follow the Fanche principle but I doubt they would call it Fanche.

Seriously, I thought it was the swinging arm like a cartwheel/waterwheel motion.

Have you seen the Simpsons episode where Bart swings his arms and walks towards Lisa saying he's just swinging his arms and it's her problem if she get in the way and gets hit?

[18elders]

if i remember correctly the upward circles are lu lu and the downwards are fan che

[mooyingmantis]

Based on your description of the principle you can find it all over the place in many different styles. CLF uses a Gwa Choi to break the guard followed by a palm strike to the face. That would follow the Fanche principle but I doubt they would call it Fanche.

Seriously, I thought it was the swinging arm like a cartwheel/waterwheel motion.

Have you seen the Simpsons episode where Bart swings his arms and walks towards Lisa saying he's just swinging his arms and it's her problem if she get in the way and gets hit?

Yes, it is not only found in mantis.

The technique is done as you describe. The principle is quite diverse.

Nope, never watched the Simpsons.

[Yao Sing]

I'm probably wrong but I thought the downward swinging arm was Fanche and the upward swinging Kua (blocking) was Lulu (the defense against Fanche). They can also each be done in the opposite direction.

[mooyingmantis]

if i remember correctly the upward circles are lu lu and the downwards are fan che

轆 轤 lù lú or "Windlass strike" has the lead arm spinning upwards and contacting the rear hand's palm which rotates downward.

[mooyingmantis]

I'm probably wrong but I thought the downward swinging arm was Fanche and the upward swinging Kua (blocking) was Lulu (the defense against Fanche). They can also each be done in the opposite direction.

Lulu can be used defensively against Fanche, but it can also be used as an offensive strike in its own right.

Another application is to strike the opponent's arm upward with the lead arm lulu, then immediately follow with a lead arm strike to the opponent's diaphragm ("steal the heart").

[Yao Sing]

Another application is to strike the opponent's arm upward with the lead arm lulu, then immediate follow with a lead arm strike to the opponent's diaphragm ("steal the heart").

Wah Lum has this also but I don't know what it's called. For the WL lurkers it's near the end of Straight Form after the elbow strike just before the alternating rising blocks (Lulu).

Do you consider the downward motion Lulu also?

[mooyingmantis]

Wah Lum has this also but I don't know what it's called. For the WL lurkers it's near the end of Straight Form after the elbow strike just before the alternating rising blocks (Lulu).

Do you consider the downward otion Lulu also?

I do not remember a downward single arm lulu type action in any of the mantis forms that I know.

[Yao Sing]

Ok, let's go to some video.

Downward strikes here.

These sections are from a Wah Lum set called Lok Low.

Comments (other than how bad my moves look)?

Edit: In the second clip, the downward motion, some play it as up-down. I played it just swinging down without the upward block.

[mooyingmantis]

Ok, let's go to some video.

Downward strikes here.

These sections are from a Wah Lum set called Lok Low.

Comments (other than how bad my moves look)?

Edit: In the second clip, the downward motion, some play it as up-down. I played it just swinging down without the upward block.

Interesting set, it is not like any other version that I have seen.

What does Lok Low mean? Do you have the Chinese characters for the term?

I don't understand your "edit" comment.

What is the application of the downward lulu type move?