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Thread: Fanche

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post

    As further evidence, Wong Hon Fan's description of the technique in Beng Bu never explains the left fist as a beng chui/bung cheui. In his description of the application, the term 翻 車 fān chē is used three times. While the character 翻 fān is used nines times.

    Later I will take a stab at translating the entire passage.
    Use Ling Bung Bo because... <<sigh>> because you're right on the uppercut. You'll see it used as a "Death Gate" technique.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post

    Nope, never watched the Simpsons.
    Blasphemy!!!

  3. #33
    so what's it called when both arms circle upwards one after the other? just Lu? hahah

  4. #34
    i always wonder how literate were these old masters? I mean they may not have even know the proper character or word they really wanted to express.

  5. #35
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    i see fanche and lulu as anything and everything from crushing blows in attack and defense to devastating pushes, trips, throws and advanced controlling qin na, all completely interchangeable depending on the attacker's movements, range and intent and your own personal intentions regarding the level of damage u wish to apply. i also think footwork is of particular importance with these techniques in order to use them to full capacity.

    i think it all depends on what your attacker does that will dictate how u use fanche/lulu, if at all.

    my 2 rmb

    : )

    neil

  6. #36
    Two other 7* sequences that have the more traditional Fan Che flavour are Mui Fa Sau 梅花手 and Dai Gah Sik .

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaboy View Post
    i see fanche and lulu as anything and everything from crushing blows in attack and defense to devastating pushes, trips, throws and advanced controlling qin na, all completely interchangeable depending on the attacker's movements, range and intent and your own personal intentions regarding the level of damage u wish to apply. i also think footwork is of particular importance with these techniques in order to use them to full capacity.

    i think it all depends on what your attacker does that will dictate how u use fanche/lulu, if at all.

    my 2 rmb

    : )

    neil
    Neil,
    Excellent post!

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Two other 7* sequences that have the more traditional Fan Che flavour are Mui Fa Sau 梅花手 and Dai Gah Sik .
    MightyB,
    Good finds!

    梅 花 手 movement fourteen in WHF's quanpu is:

    Advance Pattern, Big Water Wheel
    jin shi da fan che
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaboy View Post
    i also think footwork is of particular importance with these techniques in order to use them to full capacity.

    neil
    Excellent point!

    In the different forms we see various footwork methods employed:

    大 翻 車 - dà fān chē - Greater Water Wheel

    Here the fanche technique is used from a stationary position and lulu is used with retreating footwork.

    小 翻 車 - xiǎo fān chē - Lesser Water Wheel


    Here the fanche technique is used stationary and advancing. There is also useage of the fanche principle on a horizontal plane (as in 插 捶 - Cha Chui). Lulu is used with advancing footwork.

    中 路 翻 車 - zhōng lù fān chē - Middle Road Water Wheel

    Here the fanche technique is used with running and leaping footwork. Perhaps Kevin or Will could comment on the lulu footwork within the form.

    梅 花 路 - méi huā lù - Plum Blossom Road


    Here the fanche is used with retreating footwork which ends in a leg trip and lulu is used with advancing footwork.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 03-18-2012 at 03:02 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  9. #39
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    Wong Hon Fan's Comments on Fanche

    Here are Wong Hon Fan's comments under the application section of movement thirteen:

    功 用
    gōng yòng
    Application

    拳 經 云
    quán jīng yún
    The fist classics say,

    [ 翻 車 遠 , 而 螳 螂 近 ; 翻 車 速 , 而 螳 螂 密 .]
    fān chē yuǎn, ér táng láng jìn ; fān chē sù , ér táng láng mì
    "Fanche is distant, but praying mantis is close; fanche is rapid, but praying mantis is dense."

    翻 車 之 法 頗 多 ,
    fān chē zhī fǎ pō duō ,
    Fanche's methods are many,

    有 順 翻 , 逆 翻 , 斜 翻 , 倒 翻 ,
    yǒu shùn fān , nì fān , xié fān , dǎo fān
    such as; Following Turning, Reverse Turning, Slanting Turning, Falling Turning,

    皆 為 連 續 之 翻 ,
    jiē wéi lián xù zhī fān ,
    All are continuously turning,

    惟 此 祇 一 翻 便 止 .
    wéi cǐ zhǐ yī fān biàn zhǐ .
    However, this only turns once then stops.


    As always, please feel free to offer suggestions concerning the translation.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 03-18-2012 at 04:30 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  10. #40
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    This topic went off the deep end for me. Sounds like everything is Fanche now.

    While Fanche might fit the concept of breaking through the guard and striking not all "breaking guard and striking" is Fanche.* At least not IMHO.

    Carry on.



    *All birds have wings but all winged animals are not birds.
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  11. #41
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    Fan che techniques are purely hard in nature, there is no locking, blocking or countering involved, just smashing through the opponent regardless of how he acts.

    lulu chui is an outside circling of the arm, the upward circling somebody mentioned is called wo du chui. your front arm knocks the opponents punching arm upward, then the back arm protects the head and the front arm does a straight gut punch... its exactly the opposite motion to the basic fan che

    Kevin has a good article on fan che on his website, also theres some information here http://www.mantisquarterly.com/forum...php?t-187.html

    As far as I know, only the lineage coming from Cui Shou Shan has zhong lu fan che

  12. #42
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    Here is my translation of the Wong Hon Fan series quan pu for Da Fanche:

    Da Fan Che
    Greater Water-Wheel

    01. Middle Level, Double Lift Elbows
    zhong ping shuang ti zhou
    02. Middle Level, Double Falling Strike
    zhong ping shuang zhui chui
    03. Casting Strike, Right Single Whip
    pie chui you dan bian
    04. Hill Climbing, Big Water-Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    05. Hill Climbing, Big Water-Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    06. Hill Climbing, Big Water-Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    07. Three Retreating Windlass Strikes
    san che lu lu chui
    08. Double Grab Hands, Gathering Strike
    shuang feng shou tong chui
    09. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    10. Hill Climbing, Left Splitting Strike
    deng shan zuo pi chui
    11. Hill Climbing, Right Straight Gathering
    deng shan you zhi tong
    12. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    13. Hill Climbing, Left Splitting Strike
    deng shan zuo pi chui
    14. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    15. Hill Climbing, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    16. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    17. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    18. Hill Climbing, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    19. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    20. Three Retreating Windlass Strikes
    san che lu lu chui
    21. Turn Body, Reverse Whipping Strike
    zhuan shen fan chou chui
    22. Right Whip, Left Colliding Strike
    you chou zuo chong chui
    23. Hill Climbing, Right Single Whip
    deng shan you dan bian
    24. Hill Climbing, Big Water-Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    25. Double Grab Hand, Gathering Strike
    shuang feng shou tong chui
    26. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    27. Hill Climbing, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    28. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    29. Skim Strike, Right Single Whip
    pie chui you dan bian
    30. Hill Climbing, Big Water-Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    31. Double Grab Hands, Gather Horse
    shuang feng shou tong ma
    32. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    33. Hill Climbing, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    34. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    35. Turn Body, Reverse Whipping Strike
    zhuan shen fan chou chui
    36. Rushing Leg, Lower Catch Cicada
    pu tui di bu chan
    37. Scurrying Jump, Turn Body Pattern
    cuan tiao hui shen shi
    38. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    39. Hill Climbing, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    40. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    41. Hill Climbing, Right Crushing Strike
    deng shan you beng chui
    42. Right Close Door Leg Method
    you bi men tui fa
    43. Ride Tiger, Double Windlass Strike
    kua hu shuang lu chui
    44. Lift Leg, Left Circle Strike
    ti tui zuo quan chui
    45. Grab Hand, Right Straight Gathering
    feng shou you zhi tong
    46. Gathering Strike, Ten Character Leg
    tong chui shi zi tui
    47. Horse Pattern, Right Splitting Stop
    ma shi you pi ga
    48. Ten Character, Left Straight Gathering
    shi zi zuo zhi tong
    49. Ride Tiger, Left Single Whip
    kua hu zuo dan bian
    50. Middle Level, Double Lift Elbows
    zhong ping shuang ti zhou
    51. Middle Level, Double Falling Strike
    zhong ping shuang zhui chui
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 03-19-2012 at 03:27 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  13. #43

    Thumbs up Like

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    This topic went off the deep end for me. Sounds like everything is Fanche now.

    While Fanche might fit the concept of breaking through the guard and striking not all "breaking guard and striking" is Fanche.* At least not IMHO.

    Carry on.



    *All birds have wings but all winged animals are not birds.
    We need a *Like button.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    This topic went off the deep end for me. Sounds like everything is Fanche now.

    While Fanche might fit the concept of breaking through the guard and striking not all "breaking guard and striking" is Fanche.* At least not IMHO.

    Carry on.



    *All birds have wings but all winged animals are not birds.
    Not everything is fanche.

    However, Fanche is considered the starting point in many Meihua lineage families in the same way as Cha Chui is considered the starting point for many Qixing lineage families.

    So, it is quite influential.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  15. #45
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    Wong Hon Fan - Xiao Fanche

    Here is my translation of Wong Hon Fan's Xiaofanche quan pu:

    Xiao Fan Che
    Lesser Water Wheel

    01. Middle Level, Double Lift Elbows
    zhong ping shuang ti zhou
    02. Middle Level, Double Falling Strike
    zhong ping shuang zhui chui
    03. Casting Strike, Right Single Whip
    pie chui you dan bian
    04. Hill Climbing, Big Water Wheel
    deng shan da fan che
    05. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    06. Hill Climbing, Left Gather Strike
    deng shan zuo tong chui
    07. Hill Climbing, Right Piercing Strike
    deng shan you chuan chui
    08. Retreating Jump, Right Lifting Strike
    zou tiao you tiao chui
    09. Enter Ring, Right Folding Elbow
    ru huan you die zhou
    10. Enter Ring, Right Crushing Strike
    ru huan you beng chui
    11. Retreat Pattern, Left Gathering Strike
    che shi zuo tong chui
    12. Horse Pattern, Steal Heart Strike
    ma shi tou xin chui
    13. Enter Ring, Stomach Strike
    ru huan wo du chui
    14. Enter Ring, Piercing Gathering Strike
    ru huan chuan tong chui
    15. Enter Ring, Splitting Gathering Strike
    ru huan pi tong chui
    16. Leaping Jump, Piercing Splitting Strike
    zong tiao chuan pi chui
    17. Leaping Jump, Hang Splitting Strike
    zong tiao gua pi chui
    18. Leaping Jump, Slant Whip Strike
    zong tiao shan chou chui
    19. Collapse Stance, Seal Lower Skim
    tun chang feng di pie
    20. Seven Star, Three Phoenix Eyes
    qi xing san feng yan
    21. Seven Star, Double Hang Strikes
    qi xing shuang gua chui
    22. Twist Body, Double Hang Strikes
    niu shen shuang gua chui
    23. Seven Star, Pierce Lower Skim
    qi xing chuan di pie
    24. Advance Pattern, Three Windlass Strikes
    jin shi san lu lu
    25. Hill Climbing, Right Splitting Strike
    deng shan you pi chui
    26. Hill Climbing, Left Gathering Strike
    deng shan zuo tong chui
    27. Hill Climbing, Right Piercing Strike
    deng shan you chuan chui
    28. Circle Hand, Ten Character Strike
    quan shou shi zi chui
    29. Seven Star, Upper Whip Strike
    qi xing shang chou chui
    30. Left Right Continuous Strike
    zuo you lian huan chui
    31. Seven Star, Piercing Lower Skim
    qi xing chuan di pie
    32. Hill Climbing, Right Circle Strike
    deng shan you quan chui
    33. Hill Climbing, Left Circle Strike
    deng shan zuo quan chui
    34. Hill Climbing, Right Circle Strike
    deng shan you quan chui
    35. Hill Climbing, Seal Gathering Strike
    deng shan feng tong chui
    36. Ride Tiger, Lift Gathering Strike
    kua hu tiao tong chui
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

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