Does Wing Chun have Knee Strikes?

[GlennR]

(Yes unless you are bullying a hopeless drunk. )joy

(Some form of hand or body control is preferable for knee work.But you never say never.
What I am saying is not just theory.It works to the satisfaction of people who have done it.

Just discussing and NOT debating.)

joy chaudhuri

All good Joy.... love a discussion

I guess my point is that most WC will use opportunistic knee strikes... like any fighting style would when the opportunty is presented

BUT, i just dont see any knee strikes worth mentioning in WC, though i havent seen everything

[k gledhill]

Cool, tell us one Kev

I am not discounting normal ideas, lan sao's,gum sa's, etc.. to avoid being kneed in clinch, but it leaves you open to elbow strikes.... Lan sao better to adapt and create takedown barriers and push offs like po-pai...Chuck Liddel used similar to good effect...
Use hip positions like YGKYM to stay close to his hips, palm the guys face sideways with right hand so he is looking away from you important , stab your other arm inbetween his holding your neck and create a ' lan bar ' lifting one of his arms, one arm higher ,using his other , like a wedge using his arms as the pivoting points......first push~hit/hold his face sideways.... I have seen Sanda fighters use variations. Just adapting lan sao arm angle....
Bil Gee ideas for recovery.

[wingchunIan]

WC knee strikes are in CK, its just that we teach them as kicks / bringing the feet together etc. Having trained MT for years I'd say that the biggest difference to WC regarding knees is the amount that they are practised and the target areas. Knee training in MT focuses on two main things, 1) penetrating into the target 2) putting the hips into the strike. In WC we always seek the jic seen with a strike whether its knees, punches, kicks or elbows and the basic posture learned through YGKYM should mean that your hips are tucked under and therefore lined up into the strike. So whilst there are obvious differences in technique (notably the rear foot position and things like side knees) I don't see that the two appraoches are that far apart. I get my students to practise knee strikes on pads and bags etc as part of their kicking training but I develop their power by kicking repetition as we always teach to kick by lifting the leg at the knee.

[YouKnowWho]

If a system doesn't have something before, it doesn't mean that it won't have it starting from the current generation.

[Wu Wei Wu]

Fighting has taught me to use knee strikes.

I'm a Wing Chun man.

Who cares whether the system has knee strikes. The starting premise for any investigation is whether you are fighters, or not. If not, its just idle chatter, no?

Suki

[GlennR]

I am not discounting normal ideas, lan sao's,gum sa's, etc.. to avoid being kneed in clinch, but it leaves you open to elbow strikes.... Lan sao better to adapt and create takedown barriers and push offs like po-pai...Chuck Liddel used similar to good effect...
Use hip positions like YGKYM to stay close to his hips, palm the guys face sideways with right hand so he is looking away from you important , stab your other arm inbetween his holding your neck and create a ' lan bar ' lifting one of his arms, one arm higher ,using his other , like a wedge using his arms as the pivoting points......first push~hit/hold his face sideways.... I have seen Sanda fighters use variations. Just adapting lan sao arm angle....
Bil Gee ideas for recovery.

Thanks for that Kev

[GlennR]

Fighting has taught me to use knee strikes.

I'm a Wing Chun man.

Who cares whether the system has knee strikes. The starting premise for any investigation is whether you are fighters, or not. If not, its just idle chatter, no?

Suki

Ok, im a fighter..... your point is?

[GlennR]

WC knee strikes are in CK, its just that we teach them as kicks / bringing the feet together etc. Having trained MT for years I'd say that the biggest difference to WC regarding knees is the amount that they are practised and the target areas. Knee training in MT focuses on two main things, 1) penetrating into the target 2) putting the hips into the strike. In WC we always seek the jic seen with a strike whether its knees, punches, kicks or elbows and the basic posture learned through YGKYM should mean that your hips are tucked under and therefore lined up into the strike. So whilst there are obvious differences in technique (notably the rear foot position and things like side knees) I don't see that the two appraoches are that far apart. I get my students to practise knee strikes on pads and bags etc as part of their kicking training but I develop their power by kicking repetition as we always teach to kick by lifting the leg at the knee.

Thanks Ian.

How do you train on pads? Traditional Thai way?

[Grumblegeezer]

...I develop their power by kicking repetition as we always teach to kick by lifting the leg at the knee.

I do the same. But what you said really gets to the core of it. If, on the other hand, you do not teach kicking by lifting the leg at the knee ...as some groups don't, then I can see how they might view this differently. It only becomes annoying when they argue from the position that their Wing Chun is the only Wing Chun. Whatever.

[wingchunIan]

Thanks Ian.

How do you train on pads? Traditional Thai way?

Yeah pretty much, there's only so many ways you can hold the pads. I do also hold the pads against the thigh as you would for a low round kick in MT to allow for knees to the thigh to be trained. I also tend to get the students to work their way into range using footwork and sometimes hands as opposed to always doing repetition from within range. Biggest limitation is people being able to hold pads properly. I'd say that's one area where MT and boxing have a distinct advantage. IMO holding pads is a skill in itself and one that not everyone who holds a set of pads posseses.

[GlennR]

Yeah pretty much, there's only so many ways you can hold the pads. I do also hold the pads against the thigh as you would for a low round kick in MT to allow for knees to the thigh to be trained. I also tend to get the students to work their way into range using footwork and sometimes hands as opposed to always doing repetition from within range. Biggest limitation is people being able to hold pads properly. I'd say that's one area where MT and boxing have a distinct advantage. IMO holding pads is a skill in itself and one that not everyone who holds a set of pads posseses.

Cool, sounds like a good approach

And you are bang on regarding holding pads.... theres not many people (boxers and MT as well) that hold pads really well.
The popular guys at the gym are the guys that hold pads well for the obvious reasons

While we are at it, what type of pads do you use?

[wingchunIan]

Cool, sounds like a good approach

And you are bang on regarding holding pads.... theres not many people (boxers and MT as well) that hold pads really well.
The popular guys at the gym are the guys that hold pads well for the obvious reasons

While we are at it, what type of pads do you use?

For knees its always either thai pads or the belly shield. For hands, elbows etc I use either thai pads or focus mitts with the belly shield making the odd appearance. for kicks its the thai pads and belly shield although I am considering buying one of those big shield things that you hold in front of you that they use in karate and TKD (and some rugby training).

[LoneTiger108]

IMO holding pads is a skill in itself and one that not everyone who holds a set of pads posseses.

Totally agree. Something I rarely see in Wing Chun schools, unless the Sifu has had previous experience with Boxing etc. Strange though, as Wing Chun is considered a boxing style as such, why many Sifus I have seen even struggle to hold the pads which only hinders the students spped and progression imho.

We were trained to hold specific postures etc with pads and watch the attack carefully, adjusting for various combos. Wing Chun Fist combos are very specialized too and getting used to seeing fists flying very close to your face is a training in itself too!

To be hit to the body is the start of any so-called iron shirt training too and should not be overlooked imho.

As for knee strikes in Wing Chun? I actually can't believe this thread is still going... for me, of course we strike with the knees! Just be ready to be hit back in such short range, but this is what we do isn't it??

[Yoshiyahu]

very good post...the thread is still going because each sifu teaches things differently. Some people take out certain things like iron body, iron palm and iron finger training and substitute it for something else.

Totally agree. Something I rarely see in Wing Chun schools, unless the Sifu has had previous experience with Boxing etc. Strange though, as Wing Chun is considered a boxing style as such, why many Sifus I have seen even struggle to hold the pads which only hinders the students spped and progression imho.

We were trained to hold specific postures etc with pads and watch the attack carefully, adjusting for various combos. Wing Chun Fist combos are very specialized too and getting used to seeing fists flying very close to your face is a training in itself too!

To be hit to the body is the start of any so-called iron shirt training too and should not be overlooked imho.

As for knee strikes in Wing Chun? I actually can't believe this thread is still going... for me, of course we strike with the knees! Just be ready to be hit back in such short range, but this is what we do isn't it??