non-Hakka versions of Pak Mei

[hajimesaito]

I am not sure but I guess Pak mei was himself not necessarily a Hakka. Nor was his art passed down to his disciple monk (and his monk disciple) on the basis of their ethnicity. For example, I doubt that the monk Chuk Fat wan was a Hakka. Even if he was, a Buddhist monk is supposed to have abandoned all forms of identity after taking Buddhist precepts.

The reason why I am interested in non-Hakka version(s) of Pak Mei is because the Hakka arts are usually very compact and "restricted". In other words, there is not much emphasis on mobility, speed, agility and expansion of the body with freedom. I believe if there was a non-Hakka Pak Mei still extant then it must show quite different characteristics. My guess is that a non-Hakka variant of Pak Mei would rather look almost like a Northern style (like Choy Li Fut, Wu Zu Quan etc).

There was a very good video around in youtube posted by "SifuWu" which shows a boy demonstrating a set called "Stone-Lion" set and this looks quite a lot like Northern styles with characteristic low stance, expansive steps and significant speed.

[Frost]

Bak mei didn’t really become hakka until CLC fused it with the hakka art he learned growing up (alongside the two other arts he learned) heck whether it was even called bak mei before CLC coined the term is open to debate since I have read of it being called Ngo Mei Siu Lam in various articles
As for Bak mei not having mobility speed or agility…well im not going to go there
All we know for certain is that CLC was the first person to teach bak mei to the world, and that the art he termed pak mei was his creation from a lifetime of learning and that from all accounts he was a martial arts genius whose art stands on its own without the murky history

[sanjuro_ronin]

What dictates mobility in any system is the practitioner, not the system.
There are a lot of "IFs" with Pak mei, lots of legends and such.
All that is quite irrelevant to the MARTIAL art of Pak mei.

[CFT]

IMO, it's not a CMA unless it has a murky history

[sanjuro_ronin]

IMO, it's not a CMA unless it has a murky history

No truer words have ever been spoken !

[sanjuro_ronin]

It was quite common to credit a mysterious monk or stranger or remote family member with the origin of a MA in TCM History.
It wasn't really to add "reputation" to the system or even to give it a "legendary lineage", many times it was simply the "thing to do".
No one was trying to mislead anyone, sometimes it could even have been the case that a "mysterious" monk help fill in the "missing pieces" and the developer of thr system wanted to give him/her honour for that.

[Vajramusti]

The Hakkas traditionally for survival were fairly insular- including on sharing details of their family styles.Theirs is quite a story on migration to SE Asia, UK and North America.

There is quite a colony of Hakkas in my old hometown of Kolkata, India. Some of the families had self defense routines they practiced regularly. They influenced local restaurant and street foods.
The courtyard practice I saw as a kid-if memory serves- looked like a form of southern mantis

joy chaudhuri

[Frost]

It was quite common to credit a mysterious monk or stranger or remote family member with the origin of a MA in TCM History.
It wasn't really to add "reputation" to the system or even to give it a "legendary lineage", many times it was simply the "thing to do".
No one was trying to mislead anyone, sometimes it could even have been the case that a "mysterious" monk help fill in the "missing pieces" and the developer of thr system wanted to give him/her honour for that.

Murky might have been a bad chose of word by more, more like impossible to verify
As to Ronins comments above I agree and if you look at bak mei, CLC acknowledges his three teachers from his youth by keeping in their forms and weapons as well as the bak mei forms proper

And if we are honest, with CLCs history and what he accomplished it, doesn’t matter if the arts oral history can or cant be verified what the man did in his life time and the art he taught stand on its own merit

[jo]

"In other words, there is not much emphasis on mobility, speed, agility and expansion of the body with freedom."

WTF have you been looking at?

-jo

[charp choi]

The Hakkas traditionally for survival were fairly insular- including on sharing details of their family styles.Theirs is quite a story on migration to SE Asia, UK and North America.

There is quite a colony of Hakkas in my old hometown of Kolkata, India. Some of the families had self defense routines they practiced regularly. They influenced local restaurant and street foods.
The courtyard practice I saw as a kid-if memory serves- looked like a form of southern mantis

joy chaudhuri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyLY1-1RSQ

[hajimesaito]

By compact and restricted, I was referring to the high stances, short steps, and comparatively less full extension of arm and spine. For example, I believe the following videos come from non-Hakka lines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX0Xx6OnQ-g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFiN-ccSXn0

And these arts show more mobility, lower stances,etc. If you want to know what I am referring to, imagine Pak Mei being played like a Wushu routine. I believe originally the art from Pak Mei must have looked like that, before it was made Hakka.


Vajramusti,

There was a line of Southern Praying Mantis found in Kolkata and an Indian guy has also mastered it I believe (he taught to the Black Cat Commandos from what I read on another forum).

[Howard]

I am not sure but I guess Pak mei was himself not necessarily a Hakka.

Pak Mei is only a character in a fiction novel, thus not anything.

The reason why I am interested in non-Hakka version(s) of Pak Mei is because the Hakka arts are usually very compact and "restricted". In other words, there is not much emphasis on mobility, speed, agility and expansion of the body with freedom.

Actually Pak Mei does emphasize mobility, speed and agility...but focuses on efficient power generating principles

I believe if there was a non-Hakka Pak Mei still extant then it must show quite different characteristics.

My guess is that a non-Hakka variant of Pak Mei would rather look almost like a Northern style (like Choy Li Fut, Wu Zu Quan etc).

But CLF and Wuzu are southern!

There was a very good video around in youtube posted by "SifuWu" which shows a boy demonstrating a set called "Stone-Lion" set and this looks quite a lot like Northern styles with characteristic low stance, expansive steps and significant speed.

The video was still from same lineage of Pak Mei founder Cheung Lai Chuen.

Note - those that studied with Chueng Lai Chuen in earlier days (guangzhou) were lower and then in the later days (hk) became higher stances.

[mickey]

Greetings,

An old acquantance once shared with me that Bak Mei was a reference to an "elder" or "ancestral" style. Then he added that Wu Mei was also Bak Mei. It took me a while to figure that out. Frost's post brought it back to me.

mickey

[SergeTk]

But CLF and Wuzu are southern!

Wu Zu origins are in the North, it become widespread in the South after North temple got burned down and monks flee to Fujian.

[Howard]

Wu Zu origins are in the North, it become widespread in the South after North temple got burned down and monks flee to Fujian.

Nope-Legends again. Wuzu quan is from Cai Yuming. Irrespective of legends or history (if go far enough most MA are from derived from north where Chinese civilization began) it is typical/representative of Fujian (southern) arts...