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Thread: Sin The' admits in court he made it all up.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    its ok to train made up martial arts. its ok to feel loyalty and attachment. the key here is, sin the lied to you, and you guys either dont care, or are ok with that. you guys know fully now shaolin do has nothing to do with shaolin.

    my point is

    1. man should not allow others to fuk him. you let sin the fuk you so you are less than a man.

    2. anyone that is content with being deceived and lied to is a subhuman animal.


    i am not attacking you. this is the truth.
    I am less than a man because somone lied to me? Really? I am "subhuman" because I found worth in training that was based on representations that were a lie? When the origins were secondary to me and the training was primary? I do not condone or defend the lie. I do not rationalize why he lied. But I was still trained well by my teachers. I can apply what I was taught and got hours of sweat and sore muscles from it. There is value there.

    And you would not call me less than a man to my face even with my phony lineage training. We would probably have a beer and get along nicely. And if we sparred you would respect me afterwards. I've never sparred anyone that did not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Is't Shaolin Do just generic karate in the first place? Generic karate with Chinese trappings.

    Generic karate with mantis claws and crane beaks
    I chose my school based on the quality of the instruction by the teacher. I didn't care about lineage or origins. What teacher had the best class, sparred the most, taught applications the most, was the best person. I chose the best school from the options I had available. It was only further along in my training did issues with lineage and origins become an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  3. #63
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    Its all Ego with every one. What if the tables were turned how would you want to be treated, helped or scolded and scorned. ?? ask yourself that then post. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Its all Ego with every one. What if the tables were turned how would you want to be treated, helped or scolded and scorned. ?? ask yourself that then post. KC
    If you lie, and you know you lie, how you would like to be treated and how you are going to be treated are two different planes of reality.

    How you are going to be treated is probably closer to how you deserve to be treated when one considers that the treatment is stemming from a lie you told.

    Nobody deserves politeness when they treat you like a stupid chump.
    Nobody deserves your good graces when they take money from you for something and give you an inferior thing in place of what you thought you would get.

    It's absurd to ask for anything but mercy when you are culpable of an act of deception and what amounts to playing a confidence game on people.

    I mean, that's the real world for you.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #65
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    But some of you are treating the duped as the wrong doers, if you werent a student you have no perspective of the situation and no right to what truth is or not. We who have bought into this with time and effort. Have suffered and benefited from the training in a physical sense. So there is value there. David you seem vindictive did you invest in this thing or are you just outside looking in? KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  6. #66

    I don't get it?

    There was a lie. There doesn't seem to be a way to reconcile that. But how is one duped when they didn't really believe the lineage story anyway and chose the school because of the training and the individual ability of the instructor? Seems to me that one got exactly what they paid for; good training and solid skills. Good training and solid skills are not necessarily inferior because they don't originate from the source an absent grandmaster claims. This is particularly true if that wasn't what you were paying for in the first place.

    I'm not trying to rationalize the lie. People who paid for "authentic shaolin" have a real claim to be reimbursed. People who paid for good training and got it weren't robbed. They were only lied to. Not saying that isn't bad but lets keep the perspective.

  7. #67
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    It is a delima you get good training and a good technique and it works in a fight , so what else is there? Truth in training, it is not REAL Shaolin and is not what it was sold as being. So I am talking about Duped as far as not getting the real deal which is how it is marketed. Personally I dont like to be lied to. KC But those that are giving the practitioners down the road need to back off a little.Put blame where blame is due. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    But some of you are treating the duped as the wrong doers, if you werent a student you have no perspective of the situation and no right to what truth is or not. We who have bought into this with time and effort. Have suffered and benefited from the training in a physical sense. So there is value there. David you seem vindictive did you invest in this thing or are you just outside looking in? KC
    I don't think the duped are the ones who should be blamed. I think the duped need to recognize they were duped and accept it, that's all.

    I'm not vindictive about it and what I have invested is my own study of Shaolin over the years without making grandiose claims, shilling and duping people.

    It is untrue that an outsider can have no perspective, especially when we are talking about someone who piggy backs on something that is much older. If Thé had chosen to teach and promote a system he created that would be a fair thing to say by you, but he didn't. He created a huge conflict in the understanding of Shaolin Kung Fu and therefore caused a rift and a need to speak to that over the years by those people who had undertaken to study these art forms and such.

    He created a couple of generations of moderately skilled karateka and claimed they were shaolin trained.

    Absurd and people will speak to that. Nobody should take offense when the boy in the street indicates the emperor has no clothes. In fact, they should be thankful to the boy for helping them to not continue looking and acting like idiots around their king.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    But some of you are treating the duped as the wrong doers,
    Well, it's not like people here weren't telling you for YEARS what was going on. You chose not to listen. So, you are just as culpable.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    Who Gives a Rats Ass?

    I do not condone presenting fraudulant / made up material as true and authentic forms from a given system.

    However, if you have enough skill and understanding of the theory and principles of your given system, the forms or material you make up your self will in itself be a represenative of the system, will it not?

    I made up a small practice drill / form for my childrens curriculum. Am I fruadulently representing my system?

    Really... who cares what other people do. Some of you guys argue about the most stupid and irrelavant MA tyopics.

    ginosifu
    This pretty much sums it up!! thanks sifu!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    This pretty much sums it up!! thanks sifu!
    Uh, Gino is from a legitimate traceable and recorded lineage. So, he can have the luxury of saying such things.

    he is also speaking in context to the beginner forms.

    Now, in your case, it is not nearly in the position of legitimacy that Gino is in.

    Not even close.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Uh, Gino is from a legitimate traceable and recorded lineage. So, he can have the luxury of saying such things.

    he is also speaking in context to the beginner forms.

    Now, in your case, it is not nearly in the position of legitimacy that Gino is in.

    Not even close.
    What do you know of my backround and training? What if I am in a legitimate, traceable and recorded lineage?

  13. #73
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    This sounds like a conversation horse or dog breeders would be having.

    Can you kick a man's head off? Yes? Good. Problem solved.

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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    What do you know of my backround and training? What if I am in a legitimate, traceable and recorded lineage?
    YOu've already made claim you were an SD guy. If you were legit, you'd lay it out and we'd eat crow.

    So, can you do that? Cause I'd be happy to eat crow if you are in a legit lineage of a legit art and not an SD person who thinks they're practicing some ancient art when in fact they're doing mediocre kempo karate at best.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #75
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    David I trained in Hung Kuen and 7*Tang Lang for 10 years prior to SD and Shotokan , Aikido and Kendo under very reputable teachers Just because u do SD dont make u a woose. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

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