The secret to Wing Chun

[jonlee]

[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1165338]So as a fair and balanced response, that HFY108 forum a while back had a whole lot of internal family struggle going on causing people to delete posts and argue a lot. Some of that spilled over here and is in the archives. For a historical background of that it all centered around Benny Meng around the time of him leaving HFY. Meng was the sigung to the AZ HFY group, joined HFY, then later left HFY. The AZ HFY group stayed with HFY and Garrett Gee. You had both Meng's guys on one side and some of the AZ HFY guys on the other all as mods so there's probably no telling who deleted what posts.

Right now that forum has the opposite problem - nobody posts there

Well, nice to meet you. That's a tough decision.


Yeah, no doubt. I'm sure I've got a fair amount of content over there that has been moved around, made private, etc. Hopefully the above gives a little background.

Garrett Gee is the lineage holder of HFY - the head "sifu" if you will - he goes by sifu and doesn't use the same title as others (like Leung Ting - Master of Almightiness or whatever, or sigung). He has an instructor program introduced in mid 2000's - of which a bunch of people are certified sifus to the SNT level (first form). While sifu Gee is teaching a whole bunch of layers to the first form, those guys - who some are starting to call themselves "sifus" now - are more like "sifus in training" in an apprenticeship. Savi knows more than the first form.

[QUOTE]
Which leads me to assume that if I joined a new school like HFY Wing Chun, I will still be in the same situation I am in right now; where I will be kept at the Siu Nim Tao level for another 5 - 10 years just to collect fees before the Sifu decides to move me to the next level.

In HFY, I would say that it takes a bit of time to get through all the SNT layers - maybe a few years or so, but once you learn it and prove it you get the next layer. However, and this is something to consider, if you break up teaching an art from zero to mastery in say 10-12 years, that's about normal. It takes that long to get a BJJ black belt, for comparison.

But it's very likely if you hook up with a mediocre secretive sifu in WCK that you will wind up in exactly the situation you are now.

He has long-time students - some sifus, some not. Sifu Allen Kong, who doesn't post on forums, is one of those. Alex (duende) who posts here is another.

Hope that gives you some realistic answers.

Wayfaring, thank you for the feedback. Can I assume that you are HFY?

I think I'm consider one of these "sifus in training" too, just at another WC school. I think it would be great if everyone shared their experience at their WC school in regards to their training progression and how their WC learning path is coming along. I would love to hear from people who holds the Sifu titles to answer basic questions like, "How many years did you study WC at your school before you became Sifu?" How many forms do you know as a Sifu? How long did your Sifu keep you at each stage of the WC forms?

It will be great if the HFY sifus mentioned above can provide some insight in their person training progression at their WC school.

It's no surprise, I will be leaving my current WC school soon, but the answers to be above questions from different schools will really help me decide if I should quit WC all together or go out and look for another WC school. Thank you all in advance.

[kentchang]

This is why, from time to time, you'll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't mean Sifu Chan didn't know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference....."

It's great to see both sides of a situation. Knowledge is best found on its own.

It's no surprise, I will be leaving my current WC school soon, but the answers to be above questions from different schools will really help me decide if I should quit WC all together or go out and look for another WC school.

JonLee,
Who is your WC sifu in LA?
Gary Lam, Hawkin Cheung or ???

Wish all the zoos are like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZf5W...eature=related

[kentchang]

Brother, you said a mouthful! Amen. Reminds me of David Ross' post: "My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn't know the "real deal" never mattered. A sifu in the martial arts community (Mo Lum) knows exactly how a real Baai Si (adoption) ceremony takes place. If you say you were adopted and don't have the right things, a real person in the Mo Lum is going to laugh his azz off at you and take you for a clown. Of course, most Americans don't know thing #1 about this sort of stuff

A real Baai Si is a public event. It is usually announced, often in newspapers. Mine was.

A fortune teller is consulted to find the right date, you must submit to your sifu your date and time of birth.

A real Baai Si must have witnesses, at least one a MAJOR figure in the Mo Lum. My #1 Baai Si witness was Sifu Frank Yee (Yee Chi Wai) of the Dang Fong Hung Ga lineage.

My other two witneses were a Choy Lay Fut teacher and a member of one of the associations.

A real Baai Si involves you receiving a reb paper books which has important Kuen Po and which is signed by you, your sifu and the witnesses.

To my knowledge, my sifu did four Baai Si in China before coming here. He did three official Baai Si in the US, all done in the Mineola school myself, Gus Kapros and Michael Parrella opened.

I bring this up because my sifu, like many sifu I know, was also capable of turning to someone and telling them "hey, you got $500? I'll adopt you. Come to my house on a Thursday night with teh cash and BOOM you're adopted!"

The senior students had a huge issue with Sifu Chan over this sort of stuff. My sifu always scoffed and laughed. He said that anyone who mattered, ie real people in the Mo Lum, would never take someone claiming to be adopted from one of these "late night cash sessions" seriously.

And if another ignorant American believed someone was an adopted disciple because of this? WHO CARED. They didn't matter anyway...

It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn't, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff...

This is why, from time to time, you'll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't mean Sifu Chan didn't know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference....."

Yep!
Now, the commentary is better understood, thanks.

[jonlee]

It's great to see both sides of a situation. Knowledge is best found on its own.



JonLee,
Who is your WC sifu in LA?
Gary Lam, Hawkin Cheung or ???

Wish all the zoos are like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZf5W...eature=related

kentchang, I would love to disclose who my sifu is, but I just don't think it's the appropriate time yet. Maybe in time, I will. Stay tuned. I'm sure all sifus who are doing this are perfectly aware of what they are doing.

[kentchang]

jonlee, how many WC schools in LA?

[TroyMacraft]

The secret to most Chinese martial arts is that it has to have a sense of secrecy in order for it to thrive. Since most of my experience with Chinese martial arts comes from Wing Chun, I will use Wing Chun as an example. I’ve been studying Wing Chun for over 10 years. Every Wing Chun school that I have been too, gives off an atmosphere that their Wing Chun is better or more original or more traditional or more superior. In a sense, ...

Welcome to the world of marketing. There is always something special inside this box! That is how you get people interested.

On the other hand. Are you a better person for learning Wing Chun? Probably so.. The secret did it's job!!

[T.Panda]

No need to get involved in politics mate. The greatest secret of all which you may eventually find is inside of you... (in each one of us)

The sifu exists to guide you in a general direction. The name, or style, or portrayed secrecy is only a pointing finger. It's there for you to contemplate. It is very easily misunderstood as a definite answer or an established fact. Only you can take yourself to what is currently outside your perception. This is partially why there is a form called SNT.

We need to keep in mind that WC came from a more complete system of martial training in Shaolin Temple. We also need to keep in mind that WC was established as an intensive curriculum that would produce decent fighters. Much of the old curriculum was not included for this reason.

Having said that, I realized that my own WC is still mostly without foundation. With some luck and guidance from a helpful instructor, I realized that what I was seeking goes way way beyond the borders of Wing Chun. In my guidance I was introduced the fundamentals to Traditional Chinese Science and Medicine, Chinese philosophy, meditation, and energy boxing.

If one seeks to learn WC for fighting, thats all he will get. Your intent will guide you, so know what you want and understand the result of what you wish for.

Get out of your own way. Forget TWC, HFY, VT, WT, etc. Forget even your sifu. Don't get involved in politics. Continuously seek your path. Continuously practice. You are certain to find your secret one day or another. Good lucks mate!