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Thread: Shaolin Chaoyang Quan

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    chaoyang is an older obsolete term. older names conceal the meaning while new names embellish it.
    Its true. The name often tells the application in a poetic manner...

    I have learned a lot more from my forms by studying the names of techniques. Often the name actually refers to the consequence of the action and the strategy of the technique rather than the specific movement. So two outwardly different looking techniques may have the same name because they work on the opponent in the same manner. Similarly a seemingly identical technique may be called a different name even within the same form. This is because the sequence of the form is designed (if the form is old) so that every technique may be used in combination with both its preceding and following technique (as well as individually) and so the action of a standard technique may be very different within this combination.

    This is part of the importance of learning a form as well as drilling individual techniques.
    For example the technique 'Jingang Dao Dui' appears across the whole spectrum of Kung Fu although when used alone it is not a fantastic technique, in combination it can be devastating.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Chang Hu Xin Yi Men.
    Indeed! Changhuxinyimen opens with this technique. It is a major technique in Xiao Hong Quan where it is combined with XuanFengJiao. In Fact it appears in a great many forms.

    In Zhaoyang it is combined with Hangdichui in an unusual manner. Often the uppercut comes first the idea being by guarding or being hit the opponent lowers his head slightly which brings it into the range of the HangDiChui (earth punch) technique. This is called FanTianDi (to turn a stamp, like the stamps chinese use on their art). HOwever in Zhaoyang it is used unusually in the reverse combination, first the ground punch then the uppercut. This is much harder to understand.....

    The technique in Zhaoyang is different to Chongtianpao as it exists deliberately in this combination and the uppercut is to a lower target as opposed to a higher one.

  3. #33
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    Are we just talking about the particular technique or is it Bawang's position that this style is named for its uppercut? Technique terminology is important and interesting, but of the style as a whole the uppercut doesn't seem very significant and it would be illogical to name it after this one common technique. Hopefully he's talking about individual technique terminology or just trolling again.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    HOwever in Zhaoyang it is used unusually in the reverse combination, first the ground punch then the uppercut. This is much harder to understand.....

    The technique in Zhaoyang is different to Chongtianpao as it exists deliberately in this combination and the uppercut is to a lower target as opposed to a higher one.
    The application possibilities depend on the particular posture. Some do the downward punch straight down to the side or front, some do it angled more 45° downward to the front.

    In the forward angled version, the strike drives into the opponents center of gravity, collapsing their hips, causing their body to buckle forward extending their head and often raising their chin, which prepares for the logical following technique in the uppercut.

    When it is done straight down on the side, it is a defense against an arm drag or wrist grab from the side. When the opponent pulls you rather than resisting you go with it "punching" your captured arm downward and dropping your stance, which will pull the opponent down as you slam your shoulder and body into them. There is also a stomp there to crush feet or cause disturbance at the same time. Your other hand is next to the shoulder as a guard or can be used to assist pulling the opponent downward, which will then create a similar preparation for the uppercut as in the previous application.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    The application possibilities depend on the particular posture. Some do the downward punch straight down to the side or front, some do it angled more 45° downward to the front.

    In the forward angled version, the strike drives into the opponents center of gravity, collapsing their hips, causing their body to buckle forward extending their head and often raising their chin, which prepares for the logical following technique in the uppercut.

    When it is done straight down on the side, it is a defense against an arm drag or wrist grab from the side. When the opponent pulls you rather than resisting you go with it "punching" your captured arm downward and dropping your stance, which will pull the opponent down as you slam your shoulder and body into them. There is also a stomp there to crush feet or cause disturbance at the same time. Your other hand is next to the shoulder as a guard or can be used to assist pulling the opponent downward, which will then create a similar preparation for the uppercut as in the previous application.
    The application to the side is a different technique with a similar looking posture, however it is always done ce shen, that is to say with your body side on to the opponent and side on to the line of the form. It is a powerful move with strong breaking and qin na applications. However when done zheng shen (square on to the opponent, as in Zhaoyang) I would assume it is the technique with the hand in front of the body as Shaolin forms in almost all cases are played along a straight line (the opponent is along this line).

    With the angled 45 degree technique what you say would indeed be the correct assumption, however this technique again is a different move and a variation of the qixing movement. The technique in Zhaoyang is striking towards the earth and in front of the body. The punch HangDiChui/ZhuaDiPao is a GuoDian deng zuo, that is to say it forms a circular trajectory and can turn into a strike at any point along its trajectory. It would not target the bladder initially but could indeed be used to hit it if the opponent evaded the initial target. In which case the uppercut could indeed be a follow.

    But it is still a little strange in this combination and not an entirely comfortable technique. Why? Since although HangDiChui relies on the HenZhuo stamp for power, ChongTianPao relies on moving from a wide stance to a smaller one which it does not get the opportunity to do in this case. I.e Standing up on the spot is not powerful, where as moving from a wider and side on stance to standing up square is very powerful. See what I mean? SO the reverse version is much more powerful and comfortable.

  6. #36
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    I think most people tend to do it with the hangdichui to the front, but at least Shi Deyang always does it with the fist to the side. It's the same posture as in his Dahongquan, where again most people go to the front, but his is to the side.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Are we just talking about the particular technique or is it Bawang's position that this style is named for its uppercut? Technique terminology is important and interesting, but of the style as a whole the uppercut doesn't seem very significant and it would be illogical to name it after this one common technique. Hopefully he's talking about individual technique terminology or just trolling again.
    hong quan is a technique. qixing is a technique. tongbei is a technique. changhu is a technique. tan tui is a technique.

    older styles are named after the favorite techniques of the founder.

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