Sabatoge at the Great Lakes Kung Fu Championships

[Orion Paximus]

chinese teachers that want a white ricebowl all have egos. thats why they wanna teach white people in the first place. to show off to other chinese, and because they think white students are stupid and easily impress.

Because it's true.

[Lokhopkuen]

First off I would like to say that our Great Lakes Kung Fu Championships was a great success and I had a lot of fun judging SC. However, there was some attempts at sabatoging our event.

A couple of weeks ago my teacher was contacted by the Ohio Athletic Commision. This group usually runs all the boxing events and normally groups would have to go thru them to hire judges / Doctors / rules and regulation etc etc. Lately this group has been now trying to take over San Shou and the Martial Arts events.

One of their representatives contacted my teacher wanting him to use them.... blah blah bla. My teacher asked how did they know about us he replied with an email sent by a fellow kung fu teacher. The Shifu is Nick Scrima and here is the email he sent.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Profato, Bernie" <Bernie.Profato@aco.ohio.gov>
To: "jervinsifu@att.net" <jervinsifu@att.net>
Sent: Wed, April 4, 2012 9:31:29 AM
Subject: FW: San Shou full contact in Ohio

Bernie Profato
Ohio Athletic Commission
Office: 330-797-2556
Fax- 330-7972559

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nick Scrima [nick.scrima@worldsandaleague.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 3:41 PM
To: Profato, Bernie
Subject: San Shou full contact in Ohio


Is the below event supervised or sanctioned by the Ohio Athletic Commission?


04-14-2012 (2 days)
Great Lakes Kung Fu Championships and Shaui Chiao San Shou Nationals
All the Kung Fu Forms and Weapons Divisions you want, Internal Forms and Weapons Continuous Light Contact Sparring, Shuai Chiao, San Shou Full Contact
For more information, contact: Sifu John Ervin
Phone: 216.431.4991
Event Address: 6401 St. Clair Ave
Cleveland, OH, 44103 USA
Online: jervinsifu@att.net -

We ended up having to shut down our San Shou divisions. Coincidentally Nick Scrima had a tournament in Pittsburg on the Same day?

My question to you is...

Do you think this was unethical approach to tournaments held on the same day?

Why did not Nick Just call and ask my teacher? (we have known each other for over 20 years).

Morally was this good kung fu?

Your thoughts

ginosifu

People perform interesting acts under the guise of "just doing business".

[Lokhopkuen]

LOL ! Funny assessment.

I've never found racist or their antics particularly amusing but bawang sheds light on a very sad wide spread attitude that has damaged Chinese based martial art to it's core.

Thank goodness my Sifu never behaved this way toward us.

[Lokhopkuen]

exactly! and heaven forbid your student(s) see even the slightest crack* in your armor - because it will invariably send them all running towards the sifu down the road who claims invincibleness...and crack goes your rice bowl;

this is predicated on the ridiculous notion that it's the teacher who "has something special" that no one else has, and that even more absurdly, that he is capable of "giving it" to you; of course, in this day and age, there are no secrets: it's all out there on You Tube - and I mean not only the forms - you can see a lot of good stuff, including so-called "internal", in terms of usage; what's more, more and more people are waking up to the FACT that, as in any other of physical skill, it's not the teacher / style, it's what you put into it, and that the only "secret" is that the better conditioned, the stronger, the faster and the more adept you are in no-frills, high-percentage techniques, the better a fighter you will be;

the days of the myth of super-duper powers secret-temple-hidden TCMA are, for the most part, over; no longer can you claim superiority based on what you practice, now you have to put-up or shut-up; and while that is the death-knell for the "traditional" way of things, it's also a potential wake-up call for the community to get off it's collective butts, and start data-mining itself for the things it has of value to offer and to train according to those things in a way that students can rise to the current level at which the bar is being re-set

*(I originally wrote "ch1nk" but it got censored, LOL - any comments on that one, Gene?!?)

Sounds like somebody gots Kung Fu PTSD Not to worry; a ittle therapy and some uptown kickboxing and you'll be juss fine

[kuniggety]

Thank goodness my Sifu never behaved this way toward us.

Ken Hui, Kam Yuen, and Ark Wong (and I'm sure many others) really did great things for CMA by expanding them to a wider audience. I've heard stories of Kam Yuen getting into fights with other CMA instructors who were racist/disrespectful towards his students.

[Lokhopkuen]

It's all B/S

kung fu tournaments are a fraction, of a fraction, of a small percentage.

No one talks to anyone or coordinates anything.
This is why Kung fu is essentially dead.

He says on the Kung Fu Magazine forum LOL!

[18elders]

If all Nick did was ask if it was supervised or sanctioned, why did you have to shut down the event?
Does that mean it was supposed to be?

[ginosifu]

If all Nick did was ask if it was supervised or sanctioned, why did you have to shut down the event?
Does that mean it was supposed to be?

After Nick asked.... They (the Ohio Athletic Commission) started questioning my Sifu and if he was doing any San Shou at his Tourney and if he was they wanted him to get sanctioned by them. If he didn't they would have came down with state agents and shut us down.

OAC is not the worst orginization to be involved with, however the OAC is for big events. The costs involved in OAC would have been counter productive for a small event such as ours. We would have to use their Insurance, Pay for their Doctors etc which is way more than we could have afforded.

ginosifu

[GLW]

I have no idea what is going on here...

But, it is reasonable for any instructor or head of a school/group of schools to ask questions about sanctioning, legal issues, and safety for any Sanshou event.

If there is a boxing commission in a state and said commission has sway over all full contact events like Sanshou and an event is open to anyone who wishes to register (not a private club - there are exemptions for private organizations and clubs in some states with boxing commissions), and regardless of any fees being collected for entry, a responsible instructor would not be doing anything wrong to verify the legal adherence of the event.

The way to verify this before any of your students enter would be to ask the boxing commission if the event has been sanctioned. You COULD ask the event itself but may not always get a straight answer.

So, the question was asked and the answer was obviously No. So, the person ASKING the question about legalities and the event is bad but there is no issue with the person putting on the event?

I am puzzled.

The idea of "their Insurance, Pay for their Doctors" was raised. Doctors do not do events for free unless they are involved in the arts...and even then, they may not do them due to liability....so they are NEVER cheap. Insurance - well, if an event can get an apples to apples bid for insurance providing the same required information that a boxing commission would and the non-commission Insurance Co. is drastically cheaper than the one the commission requires...as in the coverage is EXACTLY the same, then the claim of being forced into a collusion atmosphere would be reasonable. Otherwise, insurance is a cost that all events have to deal with...and the more exacting you are in describing the risks of the event, the more expensive the insurance will probably be.

So, I do not know if there was "sabotage" here. But, I can see room for benefit of the doubt on all sides.

[taai gihk yahn]

Sounds like somebody gots Kung Fu PTSD Not to worry; a ittle therapy and some uptown kickboxing and you'll be juss fine

hang in there, man - a few more days back on your prescription meds, and you will almost be intelligible!

[Lokhopkuen]

All I get is the street stuff n it juss makes me kinda nauszy You writes gUd!

[taai gihk yahn]

All I get is the street stuff n it juss makes me kinda nauszy You writes gUd!

the street stuff's the best - it's like organic versus GMO!

[GeneChing]

I have no idea what is going on here...

So I recently got an emailblast on Nick Scrima's World Sanda League. You gonna drop a dime on that, Gino?

[Phil Redmond]

So I recently got an emailblast on Nick Scrima's World Sanda League. You gonna drop a dime on that, Gino?

It's out of the country so no one should care.