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Thread: The "Shaolin Guard"

  1. #1

    Question The "Shaolin Guard"

    Hey everyone, before I ask anything I guess I should give a general idea of my background. I'm no master of kung fu. Been training for a bit more than 7 years with my primary art being Ving Tsun, although my sifu does teach me more than Ving Tsun, it is my primary art that I understand the most.

    One of the arts I train is a Shaolin system which from what I know, is similar to the combination of all the empty hand forms in the basic core curriculum in the Jing Mo Kung fu styles (i think it's called sets of Tan Tui?). I've been training this for about 3 years and just recently was wondering about something that some people here may be able to help me with.

    With these systems/styles of kung fu that primarily use stances like sei ping ma and gong ji ma (sp?), what is the "guard stance" or "ready stance." Personally, I've cross trained in boxing and notice that I adapt something like that if I were to be told to use only things from my Shaolin. But that's not really a guard from the style (or maybe it is, who knows lol). For those of you who train arts like Hung Gar and Choy Lee Fut, how do you face an opponent and what kind of guard do you use?
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  2. #2
    ugh, in retrospect, i should probably have posted this in the Shaolin Section
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  3. #3
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    Hey there,

    All of the stances are not just stances but 'steps' that is to say methods of taking a step. As such they are dynamic and rarely held for any length of time past the momentary technique. Note that moving into a stance gives you momentum, but when you are already in a stance you have none. So the technique should be executed while moving into the step and not statically from it.

    When in non contact, that is to say you and your opponent are not in physical contact and are awaiting each other you adopt a comfortable natural posture like everyday walking, not any of the stances. The hands are held close to the solar plexus.


    When momentarily withdrawing from the opponent it is common to use the stance 'Xu Bu'. This is where the rear leg takes the weight and the front leg is empty (hence the name, 'empty stance'). The hands most typically are held in 'XiaoQiXing'. That is 'small seven stars' where the front hand is around chin level and the rear hand is held at the elbow of the front hand.

    If there was a 'fighting ready stance' I suppose that would be it, but it is not to be held against a mobile opponent, only against one who is also in stance.

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    After you have trained for a while and begin to understand the mechanics of your offense and defense, you can use whatever you please as a "guard". I teach an open and closed version to start with. Below is a basic description:

    Length half way between cat stance and bow and arrow stance
    Arms at bridge angles in front of the body

    We practice stepping into and out of all of our other footwork and stances, as well as throwing movements from here.
    -Golden Arms-

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    I like what both Golden Arms said as well as RenDaHai.

    IMO, the state of exchange or for that matter that state of Yin / Yang doesn't exist between myself and my opponent untill we get closer or touch in some way. An Attack for example.

    So a natural readiness, or not overly tense posture is the order of the day. I think this can vary from person to person...go with the flow.

    You don't need to be rooted when you've just begun a face-off.

    But no.. as a Hung Gar man I wouldn't present a Kiu Sao like they do in the movies, why would show my bridge before hand? Just react and be natural.
    Last edited by Subitai; 04-24-2012 at 10:48 AM. Reason: typo
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    kiu sao guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Subitai View Post
    But no.. as a Hung Gar man I wouldn't present a Kiu Sao like they do in the movies, why would show my bridge before hand? Just react and be natural.
    'cuz it looks so cool. come on bro. represent!

    Shaolin has some crazy classical guard stances in the forms. I'd never use any of them for real... except maybe after my opponent was defeated already, just to add insult to injury.
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    If you get to the point where a guard is a good idea, then your guard should be a 'typical" western boxing one, hands up.
    Any other guard may give clue to your opponent that you actually know how to fight, why lose the element of the unknown and show your intent?
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    Oh yah brother, well there you have it...

    Anything is possible when you're Gene Ching!!
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    "O"..."Some people believe that you need to make another human being tap out to be a valid art. But I am constantly reminding them that I only have to defend myself and keep you from hurting me in order to Win."
    "O"..."The Hung Style practiced solely in methods of Antiquity would ultimately only be useful versus Similar skill sets"

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    If only...

    Quote Originally Posted by Subitai View Post
    Anything is possible when you're Gene Ching!!
    If that were true, we'd have a lot more subscribers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subitai View Post
    Oh yah brother, well there you have it...

    Anything is possible when you're Gene Ching!!
    I had images of that Dunkin Donuts commercial about the Angus sammich.

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    shaolin fighting stance looks just like a modern boxing stance.

    horse stance bow stance etc are training stance for children. they are not used for fighting.

    shaolin uses seven stars, jing wu uses five elements. southern styles use balanced stance.
    Last edited by bawang; 04-24-2012 at 12:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    shaolin fighting stance looks just like a modern boxing stance.

    horse stance bow stance etc are training stance for children. they are not used for fighting.

    shaolin uses seven stars, jing wu uses five elements. southern styles use balanced stance.
    u tellin me this isnt a fighting stance?

    Last edited by Lucas; 04-24-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Hey there,

    All of the stances are not just stances but 'steps' that is to say methods of taking a step. As such they are dynamic and rarely held for any length of time past the momentary technique. Note that moving into a stance gives you momentum, but when you are already in a stance you have none. So the technique should be executed while moving into the step and not statically from it.

    When in non contact, that is to say you and your opponent are not in physical contact and are awaiting each other you adopt a comfortable natural posture like everyday walking, not any of the stances. The hands are held close to the solar plexus.


    When momentarily withdrawing from the opponent it is common to use the stance 'Xu Bu'. This is where the rear leg takes the weight and the front leg is empty (hence the name, 'empty stance'). The hands most typically are held in 'XiaoQiXing'. That is 'small seven stars' where the front hand is around chin level and the rear hand is held at the elbow of the front hand.

    If there was a 'fighting ready stance' I suppose that would be it, but it is not to be held against a mobile opponent, only against one who is also in stance.
    wow, i never really thought of every stance as being a method of taking a step, although now when i think about breaking down each form, each movement does def set up the next step.

    I'm a little confused though in regards to the "hands at the solar plexus" stance/guard. Is that for the purpose of not being tense while not making contact? or is it also considered a good place to keep the arms to respond to an attack?

    ive only done a quick google images search, but is the Xu Bu similar to a Du Ma stance? Also sounds similar to the jong sao in Ving Tsun.
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    After you have trained for a while and begin to understand the mechanics of your offense and defense, you can use whatever you please as a "guard". I teach an open and closed version to start with. Below is a basic description:

    Length half way between cat stance and bow and arrow stance
    Arms at bridge angles in front of the body

    We practice stepping into and out of all of our other footwork and stances, as well as throwing movements from here.
    Nice, so the stance you described sounds similar to the Xu Bu that was mentioned by RenDaHai. I guess ultimately, the natural guard stances look similar because they aim to meet the requirements of guarding the groin, midsection, and head as efficiently as possible.

    On a side note, I noticed that you mentioned throwing movements being practiced from the steps. If you dont mind me asking, what style/system/etc of kung fu do you train?
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

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