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Thread: Sam Bai Fut...

  1. #1

    Sam Bai Fut...

    ...those three bows at the end of the Biu Jee, at least in most of the Yip Man Ving Tsun lineages, i think.

    It's not that long ago that i was lucky enough to learn the Biu Jee from my sifu, but because of that, I do realize that my understanding of the movements is nowhere near where it should be.

    That said, I've been thinking a lot about the three bows. I know for a fact that whatever I know about it so far is the seed planted by my sifu, but was wondering how others viewed it.

    I've seen my si tai gong in a video talk about how it's to train the body so that if someone pulls the arm, the body and head will not move with it (which i personally dont fully understand yet, but i guess i will one day after training more)

    I've been taught by my sifu that bowing and coming back up trains using the rising of the body with the hands to give them a type of rising energy supported by the entire body.

    I've also seen other lineages in which they claim the bowing is a deep practice that completely strengthens a persons Ving Tsun.

    For the most part, these forums to me are a place to learn about new ideas that I could later bring to my kung fu family and learn more about as I ask my sifu new questions. So I'm very interested in hearing different views on this movement from those who are willing to share. What are your views?

    (inb4 answers like, "just keep training," i assure you i will, but that's not the type of answer i was hoping for lol)
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  2. #2
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    Biuji is about recovery. So the most basic recovery concept of the bows is that you are in a position with your head down, or trying to stand back up, and you first need to throw your arms up before your head in order to block any unseen attack/ flying object. You don't want to come up head first and get it knocked off.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Biuji is about recovery. So the most basic recovery concept of the bows is that you are in a position with your head down, or trying to stand back up, and you first need to throw your arms up before your head in order to block any unseen attack/ flying object. You don't want to come up head first and get it knocked off.
    I see what you mean, interesting, I didn't see it like that but it works perfectly with what my sifu said. Like you said, it's probably is the basic recovery concept considering it's all that my sifu has told me for now, but i def like the way you put it in regards to why the hands go up first. Thanks, def is more food for thought for me.
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  4. #4
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    Other recovery ideas include when being pulled off balance into such a disadvantageous position bent over you need a double wusau position on the way down to protect from lower attacks.

    Another idea on the rising part where the arms go up first is to defend against attacks from the rear. You need to turn around to face the opponent, but don't want to turn around with your face leading, and the hands if down have to travel too far to guard against anything. So as you turn around you raise your elbow which will guard your upper gate quickly because the upperarm is short and reaches there almost immediately.

    There are many follow ups after that depending on the situation, such as arm wraps, but this just provides the recovery concept. I in fact successfully used it two days ago against someone grabbing and pulling the collar of my hoodie from the rear. I quickly raised my arm as I turned around and my elbow connected with their mouth, immediately causing them to release the grab and start holding their mouth instead. I didn't need to do anything else.

  5. #5
    Just for an additional perspective, sam bai fut is a completely seperate form in weng chun. Here's a video:

    http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view...-ignatius-siu/

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=EternalSpring;1167785]I see what you mean, interesting, I didn't see it like that but it works perfectly with what my sifu said. Like you said, it's probably is the basic recovery concept considering it's all that my sifu has told me for now, but i def like the way you put it in regards to why the hands go up first. Thanks, def is more food for thought for me.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Who is your sifu and who is your sigung--- just to clarify what kind of sam pai fut you are likely to be doing--that will make comments easier to make I think. With good wishes,

    joy chaudhuri

  7. #7
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    Saam Bai Fut (Thrice Praying to Buddha), refers to the Wu Saos in SLT in some lineages.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  8. #8
    In YM WC I had learned Saam Bai Fut in Biu Jee as a recovery when your body became bent. Much like has already been discussed, bringin the guard up slightly ahead of the body so you don't get clocked on the way up. Also saw it used as a defense against knees... I would not recommend it as a defense against knees.

    In HFY, we have a rolling platform called Sam Bai Fut. It's part of our Deui Ying Kiu Sao Rolling. Most of it's focus is on maintaining a neutral upright body to deny entry to a grappler. It's pretty useful IMO.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Other recovery ideas include when being pulled off balance into such a disadvantageous position bent over you need a double wusau position on the way down to protect from lower attacks.

    Another idea on the rising part where the arms go up first is to defend against attacks from the rear. You need to turn around to face the opponent, but don't want to turn around with your face leading, and the hands if down have to travel too far to guard against anything. So as you turn around you raise your elbow which will guard your upper gate quickly because the upperarm is short and reaches there almost immediately.

    There are many follow ups after that depending on the situation, such as arm wraps, but this just provides the recovery concept. I in fact successfully used it two days ago against someone grabbing and pulling the collar of my hoodie from the rear. I quickly raised my arm as I turned around and my elbow connected with their mouth, immediately causing them to release the grab and start holding their mouth instead. I didn't need to do anything else.
    oh wow, thanks for the extra applications! I never even really thought of the application you mentioned at the end but now that i understand that intent, i def see how that works!
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Just for an additional perspective, sam bai fut is a completely seperate form in weng chun. Here's a video:

    http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view...-ignatius-siu/
    Nice, yea I've heard of the form from Weng Chun. This probably deserves it's own thread, but are Weng Chun and Ving Tsun considered to be similar or do the practitioners claim that they're two very different arts?

    I mean, i do see similarities in the video, but i was wondering if it's similar in application of the techniques. Is the Sam Bai Fut in Weng Chun a form that is learned later on like in Yip Man Ving Tsun?
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post

    Who is your sifu and who is your sigung--- just to clarify what kind of sam pai fut you are likely to be doing--that will make comments easier to make I think. With good wishes,

    joy chaudhuri
    Well, my Si Tai Gong is Moy Yat (unfortunately, ive never met him though). I can PM your or anyone else my sigong and sifu's name, I mainly try to not talk about them on the forums just in case I ever turn into some jerk who makes idiotic rants or displays bad character (not that i plan to lol), and if someone used the search feature on their names, i wouldn't want it linked to me should i ever say something dumb that they wouldn't approve of. I guess i hold a super traditional view on those type of things lol.

    Also, as strange as it sounds, I actually like to hear the views of people outside of my family. I know that not many people will agree with this, but I feel that every interpretation of the techniques can be applied by any practitioner if they just let go of the "this is my family's way and i only do this" mentality, because in the end we're all Ving Tsunners!
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    Saam Bai Fut (Thrice Praying to Buddha), refers to the Wu Saos in SLT in some lineages.
    oh wow, i didn't know that. guess my thread title may have seemed a bit misleading then; either way, new info is always good to learn! What lineages refer to the Wu Sao's in SLT as Saam Bai Fut? Do they also have a name for the bows similar to the movements at the end of the Yip Man lineage Biu Jee form?
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    In YM WC I had learned Saam Bai Fut in Biu Jee as a recovery when your body became bent. Much like has already been discussed, bringin the guard up slightly ahead of the body so you don't get clocked on the way up. Also saw it used as a defense against knees... I would not recommend it as a defense against knees.

    In HFY, we have a rolling platform called Sam Bai Fut. It's part of our Deui Ying Kiu Sao Rolling. Most of it's focus is on maintaining a neutral upright body to deny entry to a grappler. It's pretty useful IMO.
    wow, a defense against the knees? I can understand why you dont recommend it. I dont see how it could be an optimal defense, although i guess it's for emergency purposes. Plus I probably shouldn't judge since there are others that could probably use it well.

    The HFY Sam Bai Fut def sounds interesting. It's probably not the same, but my sisook also once mentioned it's use against grappling in a manner similar to a sprawl, if that makes sense lol.

    Not to sound like a noob (although i am one lol), but when you say it's a rolling platform, considering that it's related to going against a grappler, did you mean "rolling" in the Ving Tsun sense or more like the BJJ sense?
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    The HFY Sam Bai Fut def sounds interesting. It's probably not the same, but my sisook also once mentioned it's use against grappling in a manner similar to a sprawl, if that makes sense lol.

    Not to sound like a noob (although i am one lol), but when you say it's a rolling platform, considering that it's related to going against a grappler, did you mean "rolling" in the Ving Tsun sense or more like the BJJ sense?
    We don't use it like a sprawl. Closest thing we have to a sprawl is a 9 point (elbow) guard for the mid gate.

    It's a bridge arm training platform, like push hands or chi sao is a platform. Rolling simply implies there's a cyclical sequence to it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    Well, my Si Tai Gong is Moy Yat (unfortunately, ive never met him though). I can PM your or anyone else my sigong and sifu's name, I mainly try to not talk about them on the forums just in case I ever turn into some jerk who makes idiotic rants or displays bad character (not that i plan to lol), and if someone used the search feature on their names, i wouldn't want it linked to me should i ever say something dumb that they wouldn't approve of. I guess i hold a super traditional view on those type of things lol.

    Also, as strange as it sounds, I actually like to hear the views of people outside of my family. I know that not many people will agree with this, but I feel that every interpretation of the techniques can be applied by any practitioner if they just let go of the "this is my family's way and i only do this" mentality, because in the end we're all Ving Tsunners!
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thx. No problem. I dont need the other names. I believe that on You tube you can find Brian Tufts
    doing our biu jee. There is a lot to the details of the form. Regaining the line is one of the functions that practicing the biu jee form makes easier.

    joy chaudhuri

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