Secret true Wing Chun...

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1169942]

Actually I trained MT for many years and had enough fights in the ring to know exactly what its like to fight in front of crowds with a man in front of you trying to take your head off. Was I a champion? no far from it (very far from it in fact I lost more than I won) but I was fortunate enough to have a trainer who believed in technical competence before entering fighters into matches unlike many others who seem to think that two out of condition guys swinging wildly at each other in a vain hope of hitting the other is good sport.

WC is easy to become proficient in to a level that can be useful against your average Joe Bloggs but If you've ever taught anyone WC then you would know that the punching method is not natural to most people and most folks can hit a pad far harder if they try to immitate boxing strikes than WC strikes when they walk in fresh off the street. The tendancy to over commit and tense up is something that needs to be overcome to be able to fight effectively with WC whithout resorting to slugging it out.

Nope not a myth. I am now approaching 40. I hit far harder now than when I started WC despite being over a decade younger and being fresh from MT. I also have far better footwork, I'm faster and my all round WC is improving day by day. I am measurably better now than I was 6 months ago. If your only reality is that as you get older you get worse then I feel for you. I know guys in HK in their 60s and 70s who regularly amaze me with their prowess.

------------------------------------------------
Good points, WingchunIan.

joy chaudhuri

[Wayfaring]

One of the things I was highlighting with a few others is the training aspect of WCK with sparring. I keep coming back to this because my perception is people talk around this and don't do it, and there are all sorts of fear perceptions involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEgMqIo3MdE

I'm highlighting this video as an example of good relaxed initial sparring with outside skillsets. No these guys aren't tearing it up with skill and prowess. They also aren't swinging for fences and gassing out in 30 seconds. What they are doing is practicing distance control, footwork, facing, angles and hand positions. One is WCK background - the other has typical boxing footwork.

IMO this type if thing is a good regular practice to introduce proper drilling and sparring. This is a great level to introduce your beginner students to. Make that your norm and then people after doing this type of thing for 6 months or so will adjust and take it up to the next level - being comfortable with rounds, contact, footwork, etc.

Age doesn't come into play as someone 15 to 75 could participate in this type of exercise.

People who train in this fashion are more relaxed under the pressures of a full-on fight or self-defense scenario. They can think more clearly, evaluate threats, execute strategy, run, or a hundred other options that aren't there when you are frozen from not being used to the kind of violence a self-defense scenario can bring.

I say start here in your training and build a fighting future for yourself plus students.

[lance]

WC is NOT a junk art,it is an excellent art.
It just has to be trained like any other FIGHTING system.
None of this silly "no fighting till you are good enough", or none of this pointless "too deadly" crap and none of this "you can't compete" crap.
WC is NOT inferior to any of the styles that can and do fight and win.
Alan Orr has shown that.
WC is not inferior to boxing or MT or any other system in which its practioner fight as soon as they are willing to.
Anytime I hear some WC "master" suggest that it takes YEARS to be able to use WC in a fight it makes me cringe because that person just openly admitted that WC is INFERIOR to any other system in which a practitioner can fight in LESS time.

To make things clear I was ' nt saying that WC is a junk art , all I was saying is that if wing chun was a junk art the why is people still learning wing chun from David Peterson or Sifu Augustine fong ? People found a way to make wing chun work for them , that ' s all I was saying . Excuse me if I was ' nt clarifying things in my thread . But wing chun is my main art .

The main reason why I wrote this thread was because people say that Ip Man and WSL was only legends not for real . But I do know that there are alot of wing chun sifus out there , that is teaching there art . So if it was only legends then we have to use wing chun in any situation to see if it ' ll work or not . That ' s the reason why I bought up joy and his Sifu Augustine Fong . You said , that any time you hear wing chun masters saying that it takes years to use wing chun in a fight it makes you cringe . Well , I disagree with these sifus too . But I do agree that you need to test it out , and to make the art work for you . Just like you you want to back up wing chun too right ? The same thing I ' m doing in my own way . Not to critiscize your thread .

Now joy has answered my questions on his Sifu Augustine Fong , so now you know that Sifu fong is good , including all those people who has learned and trained under him .
If I did ' nt mention people like Sifu David Peterson or Sifu Austine Fong who are real people and really practicing wing chun and teaching themselves . People will know that wing chun is still being taught yet . And I know that wing chun can work and defeat other systems of martial arts too , depending on the practioner themselves .

[lance]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1169803]

Look at Sifu Augustine Fong he makes WC work for him , he participates in kung fu tournaments when ever there is a tournament . His favorite technique chi sao . Other than that Joy I
don ' t want to put you in the spot but you would know about your sigung more than me , is your sigung fong really that good ? Because you trained under him yourself .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fong is my sifu not my sigung.
What can I say.His understanding of wing chun is as good as it gets. And I have met with quite a few of Ip man's top students...plus from the next generation as well. And in his time he has fought as well.
He learned from Ho Kam Ming who spent as much training time with Ip man as anyone and (Ho)regularly did chi sao with Ip man himself.And has produced good fighters. And Fong sifu keeps on evolving.
Many of his students have fought- not just practiced with other WC people. I have top quality si hings and top quality regular practicing brothers. I am not referring to the occasional students.
One of the things that attracted me to wing chun is to put the fighting that I had done in perspective. Why something works and how to make those things even better. And I still work out with people testing wc against things that are not wc. WC is a gateway not the only one- but a very unique one.
I have tested things in order to know of their effectiveness-not for the popcorn and peanut gallery but for myself.One ultimately takes care of one self.(Self defense)
As I have said before there are many ways to fight.Each fight is an unique event.

Lots of people who learn wing chun IMO have had poor instruction and many would be better off doing something else that they understand better.

I agree and disagree with Sanjuro on fighting.Of course theory is not enough- one needs to know what works. But fighting involves unique events- each one has unique details. Reverse engineering from fighting is not enough. Top quality boxers, grapple-rs etc also have had good coaching.

Answering your question-trying not to rant.

joy chaudhuri

joy , the reason why I mentioned your Sifu Austine Fong is because people say that Wing chun and Ip Man , WSL is only legends . It ' s like saying that wing chun can ' t survive in this world because it ' s make believe . I like wing chun too myself , and I do know that Sifu Peterson and Sifu fong is for real too and still teaching and practicing the wing chun art . But thanks for replying to my thread topic on your Sifu Austine fong , now that you ' ve answered my questions in Sifu fong himself , I always thought Sifu Fong was that good including all those people who learned under him like you . Sifu fong I always see him in wing chun demo at one of those kung fu tournaments and exhibitions in San franscisco , and when he does chi sao demo he can hit his opponent couple of times at certain parts of the upper body like the side of the neck , palm strike his opponents face or chest area , get into using other wing chun techniques too . I was just recognizing Sifu fong as a real life wing chun Sifu . Just like all other wing chun practioners in general , not practicing or teaching BS martial art , as people mentioned on this thread concerning wing chun . they just don ' t know how to make it work , because they ' re not open minded enough . ! Oh Yeah ! Ho Kam Ming Sifu too , who also made it happen too , excuse me joy I ' m not that good on chinese terminology too when it comes to respecting kung fu sifus or Sigungs .

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=lance;1169971]

joy , the reason why I mentioned your Sifu Austine Fong is because people say that Wing chun and Ip Man , WSL is only legends . It ' s like saying that wing chun can ' t survive in this world because it ' s make believe . I like wing chun too myself , and I do know that Sifu Peterson and Sifu fong is for real too and still teaching and practicing the wing chun art . But thanks for replying to my thread topic on your Sifu Austine fong , now that you ' ve answered my questions in Sifu fong himself , I always thought Sifu Fong was that good including all those people who learned under him like you . Sifu fong I always see him in wing chun demo at one of those kung fu tournaments and exhibitions in San franscisco , and when he does chi sao demo he can hit his opponent couple of times at certain parts of the upper body like the side of the neck , palm strike his opponents face or chest area , get into using other wing chun techniques too . I was just recognizing Sifu fong as a real life wing chun Sifu . Just like all other wing chun practioners in general , not practicing or teaching BS martial art , as people mentioned on this thread concerning wing chun . they just don ' t know how to make it work , because they ' re not open minded enough . ! Oh Yeah ! Ho Kam Ming Sifu too , who also made it happen too , excuse me joy I ' m not that good on chinese terminology too when it comes to respecting kung fu sifus or Sigungs .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lance- Thanks for your comments. Wing chun is a great art- it depends on good sifus and good students. It has spread too fast and too unevenly IMO.

On Mother's day-- the legendary Ng Mui was a great mother to a great art.

I like to investigate things that I am curious about...I don't rely on under-informed opinions.And I don't pay much attention to internet forum noise. I don't criticize other folk's choice of style or styles.I have never regretted starting on the wing chun path and testing the way.

Fong Sifu and Ho Sigung are what you are calling real life sifus. And they have taught some very good students.If Ip man had not come to HongKong a great version of a great art would have been lost. Good wishes, joy

[LoneTiger108]

My Sifu would say that I put some secrets to our practise out onto the Lei Tai stage at the weekends Martial Arts Show!! But no. I just shared a few key methods of our approach to training Wing Chun...

Attachment 7018

It was great t share the limelight with a few of the top players in Chinese Martial Arts in the UK and HK.