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Thread: Movement Science and Internal Power [Video]

  1. #31
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    Best way to think of it as current/electricity in the body and all we are doing is building that charge/current up over time.

    Forget all the mystical stuff...

    Find out how your heart pumps, does not just happen?

    Im not going to go in depth about it but essentially we are bio-electric our heart is an electro chemical device - you can read about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...m_of_the_heart

    People seem to forget that martial arts systems were not just about fighting but health as well. In days gone by alot of systems always had a bodywork component.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    Best way to think of it as current/electricity in the body and all we are doing is building that charge/current up over time.

    Forget all the mystical stuff...

    Find out how your heart pumps, does not just happen?

    Im not going to go in depth about it but essentially we are bio-electric our heart is an electro chemical device - you can read about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...m_of_the_heart

    People seem to forget that martial arts systems were not just about fighting but health as well. In days gone by alot of systems always had a bodywork component.
    Well, the idea of a build up of charge is pretty mystical.

    But we are a machine, an organic one, but nevertheless there is a physical and explainable process that occurs. Yes, electricity is involved, but you might be surprised at how low the amps and volts are. Fluid dynamics play a big part in what we are and how we move etc as well. We are mostly fluid after all.

    Ultimately, it is about total unity and full grasp of the body and mind.
    If you work in the Occam's razor model and stay away from mysticism and cryptic symbology and stick to the raw reality and results of what you are doing, you may be less satisfied esoterically but results speak for themselves.

    People who get stuck too far in the weeds generally are unable to express in layman's terms what's happening and that reveals a lack of understanding that has been cultivated by pursuit of a dead end idea or a fruitless path.

    Just like a dentist or a doctor. they can be highly trained and competent, but if they are unable to transmit what they are doing to you in terms you understand, they are incomplete in their understanding.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #33
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    How many of you "qi is real! It's a life force that runs through us all" people at least agree that it has no martial applications?

    Geez, I phrased that wrong, didn't I? I know at least one person is gonna be like "qi is in everything that is alive, and you are alive when you are fighting, therefore qi can be used for martial applications!"

    Is qi real? Perhaps.

    If qi is real, is it present in every living organism? I suppose.

    Can qigong training improve one's health? Maybe.

    Can qigong training improve one's well being? Maybe.

    Can qigong training reduce one's stress? Maybe.

    Can qigong training improve one's quality of life? Maybe.

    Can qi be used to enhance striking ability (as in "I am transferring my qi into my palms so I can break this brick")? No.

    Can qi be used to enhance the ability to withstand strikes (as in "I am moving my qi to the area that is about to be struck in order to protect me from the damage I would otherwise receive")? No.

    Is everyone who promotes contrary to those last two statements a poor representative of the martial arts? Yes.
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  4. #34
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    Whether qi is 'real' or not, doing qi work has real physiological effects--many of these can relate quite directly to combat skill. Might be other ways to get the same skill, but any way that works is a valid way.

  5. #35
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    qi means air.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    Best way to think of it as current/electricity in the body and all we are doing is building that charge/current up over time.
    I think this is too specific and a good representation of the problem of reconciliation of concepts like Qi with western reductionist empiricism.

    Perhaps more accurately, things like bio electricity (EKG, HRV), bio luminescence(biophotons)are expressions of the properties and/or functions of Qi but aren't Qi per se. Qi is more like the underlying organizational framework governing interactions that makes it possible in the first place. So you can say things like EKG, HRV, nerve potential is a measure of Qi insofar as Qi makes them possible but it is not Qi itself.

    This is kind of a weird tangent but consider elementary cellular automata.

    cellular automaton is a collection of "colored" cells on a grid of specified shape that evolves through a number of discrete time steps according to a set of rules based on the states of neighboring cells. The rules are then applied iteratively for as many time steps as desired. von Neumann was one of the first people to consider such a model, and incorporated a cellular model into his "universal constructor." Cellular automata were studied in the early 1950s as a possible model for biological systems


    The simplest type of cellular automaton is a binary, nearest-neighbor, one-dimensional automaton. Such automata were called "elementary cellular automata" by S. Wolfram, who has extensively studied their amazing properties (Wolfram 1983; 2002, p. 57). There are 256 such automata, each of which can be indexed by a unique binary number whose decimal representation is known as the "rule" for the particular automaton. An illustration of rule 30 is shown above together with the evolution it produces after 15 steps starting from a single black cell.




    In two dimensions, the best-known cellular automaton is Conway's game of life, discovered by J. H. Conway in 1970 and popularized in Martin Gardner's Scientific American columns. The game of life is a binary () totalistic cellular automaton with a Moore neighborhood of range . Although the computation of successive game of life generations was originally done by hand, the computer revolution soon arrived and allowed more extensive patterns to be studied and propagated. An animation of the game of life construction known as a puffer train is illustrated.


    cellular automaton is a collection of "colored" cells on a grid of specified shape that evolves through a number of discrete time steps according to a set of rules based on the states of neighboring cells
    I'm really reaching here, but in it's broadest sense I kind of think of Qi as the set of rules and the grid on which they play out.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    Whether qi is 'real' or not, doing qi work has real physiological effects--many of these can relate quite directly to combat skill. Might be other ways to get the same skill, but any way that works is a valid way.
    What real physiological effects does it have? Which of those effects relate quite directly to combat skills, and in what way?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    qi means air.
    or breath, yes. But don't try to oversimplify it. People want their dragons and flying nuns for pete's sake!
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Is everyone who promotes contrary to those last two statements a poor representative of the martial arts? Yes.
    Not at all, in fact they serve a very important function.

    They help keep the real classes free of idiots liable to believe cosplayer fairy tales.

    If and when they finally realize they've been duped then they just transfer their fantasies to MMA and spend a week or two as white belt mat fodder before they give up and the lingering cognitive dissonance causes them to troll martial arts sites for the hell of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    What real physiological effects does it have? Which of those effects relate quite directly to combat skills, and in what way?
    What is the most important part of General Adaptation Syndrome? The one that allows for all the gains we see in everything from bone and tissue density in Iron Palm training to weekly linear progression in the squat.

    Recovery.

    Meditation is a conscious mental process that induces a set of
    integrated physiologic changes termed the relaxation response.
    Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) was used to
    identify and characterize the brain regions that are active
    during a simple form of meditation. Signi®cant signal
    increases were observed in the group-averaged data in the
    dorsolateral prefrontal and parietal cortices, hippocampus/
    parahippocampus, temporal lobe, pregenual anterior cingulate
    cortex, striatum, and pre- and post-central gyri during medita-
    tion. Global fMRI signal decreases were also noted, although
    these were probably secondary to cardiorespiratory changes
    that often accompany meditation. The results indicate that the
    practice of meditation activates neural structures involved in
    attention and control of the autonomic nervous system.
    http://www.massgeneral.org/bhi/asset...euroreport.pdf

  10. #40
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    You sir, genuinely instill a laugh in my gut now and then.

    that's a nice rapier you have there...
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    What is the most important part of General Adaptation Syndrome? The one that allows for all the gains we see in everything from bone and tissue density in Iron Palm training to weekly linear progression in the squat.

    Recovery.
    Even if qigong accelerated recovery, pajama wearing qi blasters don't even train hard enough to need better recovery.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Even if qigong accelerated recovery, pajama wearing qi blasters don't even train hard enough to need better recovery.
    they do when they get hit by a poorly aimed chi blast. stray bullets can kill man!
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  13. #43
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    Qi is different for everyone - depends on what you have experienced.

    Also depends greatly on quality of the instruction you receive which is key....key hahah bad joke!

    I work as a Shiatsu practitioner - see and action lots of stuff on a daily basis.

    No dragons and spells, very clinical, obviously that comes within a frame work of TCM
    knowledge of points, meridians, anatomy and physiology.

    But when you marry this side with the martial side of things - thats when you can see the whole picture. Same if your looking from a TCM side but have no martial training.

    You will always be viewing the picture with one eye.

    Bottom line is -just get on with your training and quit chasing the lighting bolt.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    Qi is different for everyone
    Why can internal stylists not agree on the one thing that is most fundamental to their art?
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  15. #45
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    Forget internal stylists try anyone - period.

    How long is a piece of string?

    Your trying to explain the unexplainable?

    I can treat a variety of problems using meridian and point work alone in a Shiatsu treatment.

    Do I know how this actually happens really - hell no!

    But the body sure as hell recognises it and responds.

    I see it every day with people from all walks of life.

    Go and have a chat and look at someone who has had Kundalini problems as a result of unsafe practise, happens all the time. Ask them what they think Qi is...

    Bottom line is dont get hung up on what it may or may not be, your experience is your experience. Move on and keep training

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